From: Michael Snyder (msnyder@wk.net)
Date: Thu Oct 23 2003 - 01:04:09 GMT-3
I disagree,
There's too many grey areas for machine grading.
Here's an example, had a requirement tonight that an ospf router be the
DR without using the priority command or changing the loopback
interfaces.
My solution was router-id 255.255.255.255, which worked just fine.
The solution in the book was some router-id 223.x.x.x number.
Would a machine grader give me the points for my solution? would you?
My first lab attempt was in the two day format. The proctor spend 30
minutes with me going over some basic mistakes I made, when I didn't
make it to the second day.
For the money we spend, such treatment isn't out of the question.
On the subject about machine graders.
I had a thought the other day.
What if you aliased the ping command to an know good loopback ip
address.
Alias exec ping ping 127.0.0.1
Every ping on that router would be successful.
I had a good laugh thinking about it.
-----Original Message-----
From: ccie2be [mailto:ccie2be@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:42 PM
To: Richard L. Pickard; 'Deluzio, Jamey A (Jamey)';
ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: CCIE grading script
Hi all,
Normally, I don't chime in on these discussions - I'm too busy doing
practice labs or other lab prep, but I felt this talk of "The Cisco Way"
is
getting out of hand.
Personally, I don't believe there's such a thing as "The Cisco Way". If
the
exam asks you to filter a route, you can thing of multiple ways to
accomplish this task and the lab doesn't prohibit you from using any of
the
methods that accomplish that task, you will get credit for that task if
it
works properly regardless of the method you use.
The problem, IMHO, is that there might be another task or requirement
which
precludes one or more of the methods you've thought of and thereby
implicitly prevent the use of a particular method. The key I think to
success on this exam, besides, of course, knowing how to configure a
vast
number of things, is READING THE REQUIREMENTS CAREFULLY.
Suppose you're required to provide an alternative means of connectivity
in
case a F/R circuit fails between 2 routers. One's initial response
might
be, "OK, this is no biggie. I'll just do a back up interface". If
that's
what you do, I suspect you'll lose some points even though that approach
appears to be completely reasonable. And, the reason you'll lose some
points is that the back up interface command monitors the physical
interface
specified. Well, the physical interface might be working perfectly but
there's still lose of connectivity between the 2 routers because
something
within the frame relay cloud failed. In this case, the backup interface
approach won't work. Although you were never told to use dialer watch,
you
lost points because you either didn't realize exactly how backup
interface
works or you didn't read the requirement carefully enough. You might
have
known how to configure dialer watch and you might have even practiced it
before the lab but you still lost points because you didn't see you
needed
to implement this method.
Now, before anyone thinks I'm violating the nda, let me just say, I made
this example up off the top of my head. I have no idea whether something
like this is on the exam and it's been over 2 years since my last
attempt.
But, I can easily imagine points being lost for something analagous to
this
example.
I suspect the exam and it's scoring isn't perfect but I also suspect
that
the number of people who don't pass the exam because of imperfections in
the
exam or it's scoring is very, very small. That said, given the cost
and
effort most of us make to prepare for this exam, any imperfection in the
exam or it's scoring is unacceptable. And, where such cases are
discovered,
Cisco should provide, at a minimum, 2 free lab retakes.
Personally, I believe Cisco should also make public a limited number of
previous recent exams. If law students and accountants are allowed to
see
previous bar and cpa exams why shouldn't ccie candidates be allowed
access
to a similar resource?
Thinking about or trying to figure out "The Cisco Way" I firmly believe
is
just a waste of time and mental bandwidth. After knowing how to
configure a
gazillion things flawlessly, the most important key to success is
READING
THE REQUIREMENTS CAREFULLY AND MAKING SURE YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THE
INSTRUCTIONS ARE ASKING YOU TO DO. If you're not sure what the
instructions
are asking you to do, ask the proctor if he can clarify them. While he
probably won't answer your question, he may say something that's
helpful.
for what it's worth, that's my 3 cents.
dt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard L. Pickard" <nettable_walker@comcast.net>
To: "'Deluzio, Jamey A (Jamey)'" <deluzio@avaya.com>;
<ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 8:27 PM
Subject: RE: CCIE grading script
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
Of
> Deluzio, Jamey A (Jamey)
> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 4:36 PM
> To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE grading script
>
> I think there are some significant problems with the way the labs are
> graded and the "Cisco Way". For the money we spend I don't think that
a
> rescore should even be an option because the test should be graded
> correctly the 1st time. I know that rescores rarely come back as a
pass
> but quite often I believe they come back with more points added.
>
> On top of that I've seen numerous e-mails where people admit they
> received credit on sections that they did not attempt or complete or
> received impossible percentages based on the values of the questions
in
> the section.
>
> There was also a thread here
> (http://www.groupstudy.com/archives/ccielab/200307/msg01786.html)
where
> someone proved to Cisco that there was a flaw in the lab he was given
> and he was able to retake the lab at no cost. I wonder if they
> contacted anyone else who had received the faulty lab and offered to
let
> them retake the test (I'm sure at least some of the people attempted
to
> work with the proctor on the faulty section and were just told to
> "re-read the question".
>
> I apologize if I sound bitter but for the price we deserve an honest
> test and an accurate score report that actually means something.
> Passing the CCIE Lab is a huge accomplishment and very valuable but I
> feel that Cisco has lost site of the fact that their certification
tests
> are products and we the test takers are customers.
>
>
> Jamey
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: k c [mailto:jwongccie@yahoo.com.hk]
> Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 5:09 AM
> To: seonghui; 'Kaiser Anwar'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE grading script
>
> How do we know the Cisco-way? Heard many times that if our
> configurations don't match the Cisco's answer, then we may get wrong
> even we meet the target. Is the Cisco-way already hidden in the
question
> and we don't understand the Cisco-word? For example, if Cisco expects
> "NAT" is the final solution, but we use another method to complete the
> request, will we lose mark? It is not fair if no hints can be found in
> the questions?
>
> Tan Chai Heng <tanch@kuala-lumpur.sns.slb.com> wrote:Hi SeongHui,
>
> "I think the most important thing to pass the exam is not only getting
> the
> configurations work, but you must meet certain criterias or ways of
> configuring the lab that cisco expects you to do...I call it the
> 'cisco-way'."
>
> What do you mean by the "Cisco way"?
>
> Thanks!
> CH
>
>
> At 03:50 PM 9/25/2003, seonghui wrote:
> >Hi Anwar,
> >
> >I had the chance of talking to the proctor in Sydney during lunch
time
> and
> >raised the same question to him. He told me that the script is a very
> >intelligent program 'custom made' to mark the different labs.
According
> to
> >him, this script acts as a helper to them to do some ping, pick up
the
> >routes in the routing table, check the necessary protocols, commands
> etc.
> >
> >However, if the script marks wrong for certain sections, the proctor
> will
> >personally look at those sections. If it makes sense to him and
thinks
> that
> >your config is ok, he will award you the point. However, if it is a
> rescore,
> >your config will be loaded by a proctor in another location, and he
> will
> >manually mark the config without running the script.
> >
> >The above was the answer from the proctor in Sydney. He is a very
nice,
> >helpful and friendly guy. I believe the marking system is fair and
> >accurate...eventhough i didn't make it to pass on the first attempt.
I
> think
> >the most important thing to pass the exam is not only getting the
> >configurations work, but you must meet certain criterias or ways of
> >configuring the lab that cisco expects you to do...I call it the
> >'cisco-way'.
> >
> >regards - SH
>
>
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