From: IPexpert, Inc. (groupstudy@ipexpert.net)
Date: Wed Oct 01 2003 - 17:57:10 GMT-3
I think Paul is working on enhancing his Jobs forum - anyone looking for
employment should contact him directly to see if he knows of anything.
- Wayne
Scott Morris writes:
> Point taken. Let's get back to the basic concepts though...
>
> Why are your voice servers (windows, unix, whatever....) on a network
> with access to or from the Internet??? Or even to or from the normal
> users' network without very strict controls????
>
> Basic network security should tell you that's a bad idea regardless of
> your presumption on how good or bad a system is. If uptime is the
> concern, then certain precautions should be taken. Period.
>
> I'm not taking it personally, it just seems a very short-sighted vision
> to make declarations like you did. The part of the reboot on patching,
> you are completely correct, unless the patch has to do with something at
> kernel level. (Which you're right, is more rare)
>
> SHOULDN'T be an issue regardless from network design. As for CSA, I've
> heard that there is discussion/work on an integrated CSA client to the
> base OS of Call Managers. You'll need to talk to your SE about upgrades
> 'n' such to that image, but I've heard folks talking about it.
>
> Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph Ezerski [mailto:jezerski@broadcom.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 2:10 PM
> To: swm@emanon.com; 'Larry Letterman'; jgraun@comcast.net; 'Barney
> Gaumer'
> Cc: c0ckhead2000@yahoo.com; 'Edmund Tham'; KMirza@coh.org;
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE's Looking for employment
>
>
> This is the same old canned response I get from every Windows admin. I
> am not attacking you personally, as you make valid points. What I do
> want to underline is that having it on Windows invites problems. Worms
> for one. Two, all the frequent and urgent patching and reboots, etc.
> Sure, I could get CSA, but that costs money. On a UNIX machine I can
> almost always patch and NOT have to reboot. UNIX exploits are much
> rarer, and even more so on a hardened OS that Cisco would undoubtedly
> deliver if they put Call Mgr on UNIX. Good thing I would never need to
> run BIND or Sendmail on a UNIX call manager, because you are right about
> those old classic flaws that have long since been fixed.
>
> -Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Morris [mailto:swm@emanon.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:56 AM
> To: 'Joseph Ezerski'; 'Larry Letterman'; jgraun@comcast.net; 'Barney
> Gaumer'
> Cc: c0ckhead2000@yahoo.com; 'Edmund Tham'; KMirza@coh.org;
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE's Looking for employment
>
>
> Why do they need to??? If you have unstable Windows boxes, that is
> likely more from lack of experience administering Windows than anything
> else. And the recent default builds for CCM are actually quite good! So
> check your overall design and capabilties before being so quick to leap
> on the bandwagon!
>
> As for unix, there's the BTS 10200 if you are interested in something of
> that caliber. However, chances are if you are still designing your
> networks where the servers are attached in such a ways that you had
> serious concerns, you have larger issues than just running Windows. Ya
> know, unix has bugs and vulnerabilies too... Or don't you run sendmail?
> Or bind?
>
> Why not? Did you shut them off because you weren't using them? Isn't
> than an argument for the caliber of server administration?
>
> Anyway... The Windows boxes are plenty capable of doing what is
> necessary. Get CSA. Or get the servers off your data network. You
> don't plug your PBX in to the data network do you?
>
> </soapbox>
>
> Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Joseph Ezerski
> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 1:31 PM
> To: 'Larry Letterman'; jgraun@comcast.net; 'Barney Gaumer'
> Cc: c0ckhead2000@yahoo.com; 'Edmund Tham'; KMirza@coh.org;
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE's Looking for employment
>
>
> Larry:
>
> When is Cisco going to migrate Call Manager to something other than
> Windows? This is my main beef with going Cisco for VOIP. If you want
> any kind of serious uptime and reliability, it has to be UNIX. You
> might argue that using a Call Mgr cluster on Windows is just as good,
> but I say it is not. With the latest worms it would have creamed any
> unpatched cluster.
>
> I fight with our own phone guys, who prefer Avaya, and I can never
> defend the "Windows Server" position.
>
> -Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Larry Letterman
> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:06 AM
> To: jgraun@comcast.net; 'Barney Gaumer'
> Cc: c0ckhead2000@yahoo.com; 'Edmund Tham'; KMirza@coh.org;
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE's Looking for employment
>
>
> Obviously you don't have IP telephony on your network. Our ip telephony
> People have expertise in unix/NT for the call mgr servers as well as
> CCNP/CCIE Credentials, most of them coming from the SJ lan team
> previously...
>
>
> Larry Letterman
> Cisco Systems
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> jgraun@comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 9:57 AM
> To: Barney Gaumer
> Cc: c0ckhead2000@yahoo.com; Edmund Tham; KMirza@coh.org;
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: CCIE's Looking for employment
>
>
> I strongly disagree, real network guys have to understand apps, how OSes
> work basically every layer of the OSI model, admins just care about
> their box or their app and nothing else. Most companies treat
> everything as a network problem.
>
>
> steve
> > Hmmm...
> >
> > gated, zebra, routed... ever heard of those? Don't be
> > so small minded. And what os do you think Bozak built
> > IOS from??
> >
> > I have 2 ABR's that are unix, an HA pair running gated
> > that are BSD and a Sun E250 runnig zebra.
> >
> > When comments like that Windows admin thing and the
> > Unix admin thing are made it diminishes us as
> > professionals. We need to stay above that kind of
> > stuff. without them there is no need for us.
> >
> > IMHO,
> > Barney
> > --- jgraun@comcast.net wrote:
> > > I doubt that. Must UNIX admins just care about
> > > there boxes and that is it.
> > > > I work with Unix admins that probably know more
> > > about
> > > > networking than you!
> > > >
> > > > Cockhead!
> > > >
> > > > B
> > > > --- "c0ckhead2000@yahoo.com"
> > > <c0ckhead2000@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > I see a lot of people tell me that they are
> > > "network
> > > > > engineers" but being a windows network admin or
> > > a
> > > > > UNIX network admin doesnt count. These people
> > > cant
> > > > > tell me how traceroute works, they ask what TCP
>
> > > > > IPsec uses, they ask what ports need to be
> > > opened
> > > > > inbound on a firewall for a session keepalive.
> > > And
> > > > > still they tell me that they are network people,
> > > > > then I ask them about BGP and they get scared,
> > > they
> > > > > are a bunch of jokers.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve
> > > > >
> > > > > Edmund Tham <edmund_tcm@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > I am also a CCIE recently. I have 4 year+ of
> > > work
> > > > > experience with lots of
> > > > > field experience. I am trying to change job to
> > > get
> > > > > better pay because my
> > > > > company is not paying me what a CCIE should be
> > > paid
> > > > > and my pay sucks. But I
> > > > > found that the job market is very saturated with network
> > > > > engineer. Don't say
> > >
> > > > > about screwing up in job interview, I don't even
> > > > > have a chance to go for job
> > > > > interview with all the application that I have
> > > sent
> > > > > out. I really don't know
> > > > > what the employeer are looking for nowsaday.
> > > Maybe
> > > > > nowsaday looking for a
>
> > > > > job is not what u know.... but who u know.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "fggf fgffg"
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Cc:
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 2:38 AM
> > > > > Subject: RE: CCIE's Looking for employment
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I am a new CCIE, I passed two months ago. I am
> > > > > still looking for my first
> > > > > computer job, currently I am back-hoe driver for
> > > a
> > > > > construction company, but
> > > > > I read every post on the site and went to every
> > > CCIE
> > > > > bootcamp for dummies I
> > > > > could, so I would only want 110k per year and 4
> > > > > weeks vacation. I am fast
> > > > > learner so don't worry about my lack of
> > > experience.
> > > > > What else can you tell
> > > > > me about the job.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Steve
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > >
> > > > > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved
> > > product
> > > > > search
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > ***Get your CCIE and a FREE vacation:
> > > > > Shop.GroupStudy.com***
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > _
> > > > > > Please help support GroupStudy by purchasing
> > > your
> > > > > study materials from:
> > > > > > shop.groupstudy.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product
> > > > > search
> > > > >
> > > > > ***Get your CCIE and a FREE vacation:
> > > > > Shop.GroupStudy.com***
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > _
> > > > > Please help support GroupStudy by purchasing
> > > your
> > > > > study materials from:
> > > > > shop.groupstudy.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
>
> > > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product
> > > search
> > >
> > > > http://shopping.yahoo.com
> > > >
> > > > ***Get your CCIE and a FREE vacation:
> > > Shop.GroupStudy.com***
> > > >
> > >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > _
> > > > Please help support GroupStudy by purchasing your
> > > study materials from:
> > > > shop.groupstudy.com
> > > >
> > > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
> > http://shopping.yahoo.com
> >
> > ***Get your CCIE and a FREE vacation: Shop.GroupStudy.com***
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > _
> > Please help support GroupStudy by purchasing your study materials
> from:
> > shop.groupstudy.com
> >
> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
> ***Get your CCIE and a FREE vacation: Shop.GroupStudy.com***
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Please help support GroupStudy by purchasing your study materials from:
> shop.groupstudy.com
>
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
> ***Get your CCIE and a FREE vacation: Shop.GroupStudy.com***
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Please help support GroupStudy by purchasing your study materials from:
> shop.groupstudy.com
>
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
> ***Get your CCIE and a FREE vacation: Shop.GroupStudy.com***
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Please help support GroupStudy by purchasing your study materials from:
> shop.groupstudy.com
>
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
> ***Get your CCIE and a FREE vacation: Shop.GroupStudy.com***
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Please help support GroupStudy by purchasing your study materials from:
> shop.groupstudy.com
>
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
"Thanks! - We Truly Appreciate Your Business!"
Wayne A. Lawson II
// CCIE #5244 - IPexpert, Inc.
:: Toll Free: +1.866.225.8064
:: Outside U.S. & Canada: +1.312.321.6924
:: Fax: +1.312.321.6925
:: Mobile: +1.810.434.4801
Mailto: wayne@IPexpert.com
URL: http://www.IPexpert.com
"Self-Paced, Instructor Led & Distance Learning
(vClass) CCIE, CCSP, CCNP & CCNA Training!"
***Get your CCIE and a FREE vacation: Shop.GroupStudy.com***
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Mon Nov 24 2003 - 07:52:55 GMT-3