From: David Hickman (dwh@landtitleco.com)
Date: Wed Oct 01 2003 - 15:25:15 GMT-3
I raised this same question to the two CallManager Tech @ TAC that where
recently helping me with a bug in one of my CallManagers after an
upgrade and both of them told me alternate operating systems are already
in the works. They also told me that the majority of the calls they get
are related to Windows bugs and patches that are wreaking havoc on
CallManagers.
If you need an example of Cisco's direction look at Unity Express, which
is still a new product and not quite full featured yet, but it runs on a
hardened version of Linux.
I would not take the techs as an official announcement, but I would bet
they really are looking at it very seriously.
Just my two cents.
Regards,
David Hickman
-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Ezerski [mailto:jezerski@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 12:10 PM
To: swm@emanon.com; 'Larry Letterman'; jgraun@comcast.net; 'Barney
Gaumer'
Cc: c0ckhead2000@yahoo.com; 'Edmund Tham'; KMirza@coh.org;
ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: CCIE's Looking for employment
This is the same old canned response I get from every Windows admin. I
am
not attacking you personally, as you make valid points. What I do want
to
underline is that having it on Windows invites problems. Worms for one.
Two, all the frequent and urgent patching and reboots, etc. Sure, I
could
get CSA, but that costs money. On a UNIX machine I can almost always
patch
and NOT have to reboot. UNIX exploits are much rarer, and even more so
on a
hardened OS that Cisco would undoubtedly deliver if they put Call Mgr on
UNIX. Good thing I would never need to run BIND or Sendmail on a UNIX
call
manager, because you are right about those old classic flaws that have
long
since been fixed.
-Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Morris [mailto:swm@emanon.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:56 AM
To: 'Joseph Ezerski'; 'Larry Letterman'; jgraun@comcast.net; 'Barney
Gaumer'
Cc: c0ckhead2000@yahoo.com; 'Edmund Tham'; KMirza@coh.org;
ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: CCIE's Looking for employment
Why do they need to??? If you have unstable Windows boxes, that is
likely
more from lack of experience administering Windows than anything else.
And
the recent default builds for CCM are actually quite good! So check your
overall design and capabilties before being so quick to leap on the
bandwagon!
As for unix, there's the BTS 10200 if you are interested in something of
that caliber. However, chances are if you are still designing your
networks
where the servers are attached in such a ways that you had serious
concerns,
you have larger issues than just running Windows. Ya know, unix has
bugs
and vulnerabilies too... Or don't you run sendmail? Or bind?
Why not? Did you shut them off because you weren't using them? Isn't
than
an argument for the caliber of server administration?
Anyway... The Windows boxes are plenty capable of doing what is
necessary.
Get CSA. Or get the servers off your data network. You don't plug your
PBX
in to the data network do you?
</soapbox>
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Joseph Ezerski
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 1:31 PM
To: 'Larry Letterman'; jgraun@comcast.net; 'Barney Gaumer'
Cc: c0ckhead2000@yahoo.com; 'Edmund Tham'; KMirza@coh.org;
ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: CCIE's Looking for employment
Larry:
When is Cisco going to migrate Call Manager to something other than
Windows?
This is my main beef with going Cisco for VOIP. If you want any kind of
serious uptime and reliability, it has to be UNIX. You might argue that
using a Call Mgr cluster on Windows is just as good, but I say it is
not.
With the latest worms it would have creamed any unpatched cluster.
I fight with our own phone guys, who prefer Avaya, and I can never
defend
the "Windows Server" position.
-Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Larry Letterman
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:06 AM
To: jgraun@comcast.net; 'Barney Gaumer'
Cc: c0ckhead2000@yahoo.com; 'Edmund Tham'; KMirza@coh.org;
ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: CCIE's Looking for employment
Obviously you don't have IP telephony on your network. Our ip telephony
People have expertise in unix/NT for the call mgr servers as well as
CCNP/CCIE Credentials, most of them coming from the SJ lan team
previously...
Larry Letterman
Cisco Systems
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
jgraun@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 9:57 AM
To: Barney Gaumer
Cc: c0ckhead2000@yahoo.com; Edmund Tham; KMirza@coh.org;
ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: CCIE's Looking for employment
I strongly disagree, real network guys have to understand apps, how OSes
work basically every layer of the OSI model, admins just care about
their
box or their app and nothing else. Most companies treat everything as a
network problem.
steve
> Hmmm...
>
> gated, zebra, routed... ever heard of those? Don't be
> so small minded. And what os do you think Bozak built
> IOS from??
>
> I have 2 ABR's that are unix, an HA pair running gated
> that are BSD and a Sun E250 runnig zebra.
>
> When comments like that Windows admin thing and the
> Unix admin thing are made it diminishes us as
> professionals. We need to stay above that kind of
> stuff. without them there is no need for us.
>
> IMHO,
> Barney
> --- jgraun@comcast.net wrote:
> > I doubt that. Must UNIX admins just care about
> > there boxes and that is it.
> > > I work with Unix admins that probably know more
> > about
> > > networking than you!
> > >
> > > Cockhead!
> > >
> > > B
> > > --- "c0ckhead2000@yahoo.com"
> > <c0ckhead2000@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > I see a lot of people tell me that they are
> > "network
> > > > engineers" but being a windows network admin or
> > a
> > > > UNIX network admin doesnt count. These people
> > cant
> > > > tell me how traceroute works, they ask what TCP
> > > > IPsec uses, they ask what ports need to be
> > opened
> > > > inbound on a firewall for a session keepalive.
> > And
> > > > still they tell me that they are network people,
> > > > then I ask them about BGP and they get scared,
> > they
> > > > are a bunch of jokers.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Steve
> > > >
> > > > Edmund Tham <edmund_tcm@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I am also a CCIE recently. I have 4 year+ of
> > work
> > > > experience with lots of
> > > > field experience. I am trying to change job to
> > get
> > > > better pay because my
> > > > company is not paying me what a CCIE should be
> > paid
> > > > and my pay sucks. But I
> > > > found that the job market is very saturated with network
> > > > engineer. Don't say
> >
> > > > about screwing up in job interview, I don't even
> > > > have a chance to go for job
> > > > interview with all the application that I have
> > sent
> > > > out. I really don't know
> > > > what the employeer are looking for nowsaday.
> > Maybe
> > > > nowsaday looking for a
> > > > job is not what u know.... but who u know.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "fggf fgffg"
> > > > To:
> > > > Cc:
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 2:38 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: CCIE's Looking for employment
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I am a new CCIE, I passed two months ago. I am
> > > > still looking for my first
> > > > computer job, currently I am back-hoe driver for
> > a
> > > > construction company, but
> > > > I read every post on the site and went to every
> > CCIE
> > > > bootcamp for dummies I
> > > > could, so I would only want 110k per year and 4
> > > > weeks vacation. I am fast
> > > > learner so don't worry about my lack of
> > experience.
> > > > What else can you tell
> > > > me about the job.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> >
> > > > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved
> > product
> > > > search
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> > > > Shop.GroupStudy.com***
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________________
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Mon Nov 24 2003 - 07:52:54 GMT-3