From: Brian Dennis (brian@labforge.com)
Date: Mon Feb 24 2003 - 00:10:24 GMT-3
Did the questions you saw say something like, "I had X on my lab and how
do I do X" or was it more like, "how do I do X"? If it was the latter
then it's hard to say it's an NDA violation from a legal standpoint.
Just because someone has a question in the CCIE lab doesn't mean that
they can never discuss the topics the question covered. We can only hope
people maintain the integrity of the CCIE lab by not directly discussing
the questions they had in the lab.
As far as Cisco employees being on this list I can say that the CCIE lab
proctors are on the list and they do take action against people who
violate the NDA.
Brian Dennis, CCIE #2210 (R&S/ISP Dial/Security)
brian@labforge.com
http://www.labforge.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry [mailto:phase90@comcast.net]
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 6:33 PM
To: Brian Dennis; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: Suggestion - FAQ of CCIE Lab
Thanks for the link Brian. According to paragraph 2
" - Posting of test content to study groups internal to
Cisco
or External to Cisco with the exception of ccie-lab@cisco.com. "
the whole list is in violation. So what's up with that? I guess it must
have
Cisco's blessing? I know of
at least 1 Cisco employee on the list. There must be at least 2 or more.
Question still not answered.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Dennis <brian@labforge.com>
To: 'Jerry' <phase90@comcast.net>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 8:37 PM
Subject: RE: Suggestion - FAQ of CCIE Lab
>
http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/625/ccie/ccie_program/cheating_dishones
> ty.html
>
> Brian Dennis, CCIE #2210 (R&S/ISP Dial/Security)
> brian@labforge.com
> http://www.labforge.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
Of
> Jerry
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 3:21 PM
> To: OhioHondo; ray_gan74@hotmail.com; Sean; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Suggestion - FAQ of CCIE Lab
>
> Gentlemen [ and lady or 2 ] ,
>
> This may be a stupid question but here goes. Why
> don't
> the questions on this list violate the CCIE NDA. I have only taken the
> lab
> once but I know there are several different real labs
> that must be rotated in and out in some fasion. The first time I read
> the
> list the day after I took my
> lab I saw the exact same questions that were on my lab. This would
mean
> either someone else at RTP
> or possiblt another lab had the exact same scenario as I did. This is
> what I
> wonder. Why isn't the
> whole list an NDA violation? Please exaplain at anyone's convenience.
>
>
> Jerry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: OhioHondo <ohiohondo@columbus.rr.com>
> To: <ray_gan74@hotmail.com>; Sean <groupstudyccielab@datalion.com>;
> <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 2:33 PM
> Subject: RE: Suggestion - FAQ of CCIE Lab
>
>
> > I think the FAQ idea is a good one, however..... I also believe
there
> is
> > another issue. Teaching/Instructing is a darn good way to learn --
to
> > solidify your thoughts on a subject and express them to another.
> >
> > Everyone on this forum is in a different place in their CCIE lab
> > preparation. For those on the last legs of their study preparation,
> these
> > "simple", oft answered questions might be an annoyance. To others
they
> are
> a
> > learning opportunity both the the one who asks the question and the
> one(s)
> > who answer it. Seeing others' points of view on a subject, or seeing
> where
> > our study partners might be mis-directed so we can help or
"answering
> a
> > question" and being corrected by someone who has a better grasp of
the
> > technology -- these are all valuable.
> >
> > I agree that some of the questioners should do more research prior
to
> asking
> > their questions. They should not take the easy way out and expect a
> total
> > explanation of a technology to come from this forum. (Incidentally,
> this
> > approach probably confuses them rather than help because of the
> multitude
> of
> > answers that are typically given.) But I also believe that anyone
> should
> be
> > allowed to ask any question --- for all of the good reasons
mentioned
> above.
> >
> > Note --- It's not the questions that are the majority of the e-mails
> that
> I
> > receive from this forum. It's the multitude of answers, requests for
> > clarification on a question, etc. In other words, it's the ones that
> are
> > trying to help, or the ones that are trying to discuss that are
> creating
> the
> > majority of the e-mails. This is not necessarily a bad thing --
> however
> > e-mail is not a good media for holding discussions.
> >
> > Here is another scenario that causes extended strings on a single
> string.
> I
> > have been guilty of causing this one. Sometimes a question is too
open
> ended
> > (not specific enough)and I provide an answer that is not complete or
> cover
> > all the possibilities -- because I don't take the time to cover all
> the
> > possibilites on the open ended question. I have to applaud people
like
> Kym
> > Blair who consistantly take the time to first clarify the question
and
> then
> > give a full answer to these queries. (There are others but Kym is a
> great
> > example.) Giving complete answers cuts down on the entire
discussion.
> >
> > Just one more time --- the majority of the e-mails are answers to
> questions.
> > Some of the answers are just comraderie, friendly banter, between
> ourselves.
> > This social aspect of the forum, between all of those 'bleeding'
> through
> > their CCIE preparation, also has a value.
> >
> > With the CCO, archives and all the other resources available for
study
> --
> > the CCIE groupstudy has its' place. Adding a FAQ's, that has
accurate
> and
> > complete explanations, can't be a bad thing. But it is redundant to
> many
> > other possible sources of non-interactive information. (Well e-mail,
> pseudo
> > interactive)
> >
> > Just my 2 cents.........
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf
Of
> > ray_gan74@hotmail.com
> > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:53 AM
> > To: Sean; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: Re: Suggestion - FAQ of CCIE Lab
> >
> >
> > I think its a great idea! That way if there is a question that has
> been
> > answered many times before we can just refer them to the FAQ. In
> addition
> > we won't see anymore pissed off threads why people always ask the
same
> > question.
> >
> >
> > Ray
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Sean" <groupstudyccielab@datalion.com>
> > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 7:05 AM
> > Subject: Suggestion - FAQ of CCIE Lab
> >
> >
> > > Since many on the list think subscribers should search and/or
> research
> > more
> > > instead of asking same basic question repeatedly, I suggest we
> compile
> an
> > > FAQ for CCIE Lab takers. It should be posted to this list
> frequently,
> say
> > > every month or quarter depending on the resource we have.
> > >
> > > A few days ago, someone wanted to collect CCIE Lab gotcha, and
those
> study
> > > points can be good candidate for the FAQ. What do you think?
> > >
> > > Sean
> > > CCIE 90XX
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