From: tan (tan@dia.janis.or.jp)
Date: Sat Feb 22 2003 - 21:38:53 GMT-3
Spot on. Well said.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
> Tom Larus
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 2:15 AM
> To: Joe Chang; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Thinking out loud, you still got a mind with thoughts
> inside?
>
>
> Joe Chang:
>
> I'm with you. While it is certainly correct that one should
> honor the rules
> of this forum and attempt some research before simply blurting out a
> question, I am certainly not for vigorous enforcement so this
> list only
> addresses the truly new and truly difficult problems.
>
> At the end of a long day (at work or in the lab), it is nice
> to come home
> and relax by reading this forum. Sometimes, someone comes up
> with a new
> twist on an old solution to an oft-asked question. It is
> nice to see, again
> and again, the same or similar answers to oft-asked
> questions, because it
> provides a good review and tends to confirm that the answer is indeed
> correct. If it was not correct, someone in the group would
> proudly offer a
> correction. Reading the list was a way to relax while I
> prepared for the
> Lab. I generally did not count it as Lab prep time in my lab
> notebook, yet
> I was learning even as I relaxed.
>
> Also, I like having the chance to take a stab at answering
> simple questions
> or questions which may have been answered before. When I
> post an answer,
> like I did the other day, I can then receive some correction
> about a point
> of syntax. ( I'm rebuilding my lab now so that I can check
> syntax at home).
> A trainer from a first-rate CCIE training outfit and I each
> made the same
> mistake in our response to a relatively easy question-- we
> each put "ip" in
> a standard ip access-list-- and our error was noted. All of
> this back and
> forth contribution and correction probably looked like a
> waste of time to
> someone who thought that the original question never should
> have been asked.
>
> With all the hard work one needs to do to learn what one
> needs to learn in
> order to be prepared to make a respectable attempt at the
> CCIE lab, it's
> nice to have a few lessons spoon-fed to you.
>
> My gosh, if I had to spend as many days in my lab figuring
> out every problem
> as I had to spend figuring out a few of the problems, I would
> never have
> gotten there. I know some of you really see the CCIE as a lifetime
> achievement award for networkers who know just about everything about
> everything, I don't view it that way. I view it as one step in a long
> journey of learning-- and an early step at that.
>
> Time for me to put on an asbestos suit for suggesting that
> spoonfeeding is
> EVER a good thing.
>
> Tom Larus
> CCIE#10,014
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Chang" <changjoe@earthlink.net>
> To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 5:34 PM
> Subject: Re: Thinking out loud, you still got a mind with
> thoughts inside?
>
>
> > Jennifer is completely wrong. Even working through the
> simplest questions
> > helps me become more adept with the IOS and brings me closer to a
> successful
> > lab. I'm sure many others feel the same way too. So to
> everyone on this
> > list, please keep the questions coming in, no matter how simple.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jennifer Bellucci" <jennifer_bellucci@hotmail.com>
> > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 5:14 PM
> > Subject: Thinking out loud, you still got a mind with
> thoughts inside?
> >
> >
> > > Hello Group members and what-have-you
> > >
> > > I have been reading some of the mails on the list and
> have been feeling
> > > slightly, well pissed off.
> > > You see people sending mails about what subjects are on
> the lab, what's
> > not on
> > > the lab, where can I find this and what's that. That's
> all fair and
> good,
> > > that's why this group exists. What really gets to me is
> that people
> don't
> > > bother reading through the archives or going on CCO to look first.
> > > 70% of the mails could be avoided by just reading instead of being
> > spoon-fed
> > > the information. These people are either mentally
> impaired in a way that
> > is
> > > not detectable by current medical practices or they have
> no idea what
> > there
> > > talking about.
> > >
> > > If you really don't know, then send the mail and that's
> that. I see
> people
> > > sending some questions they should be shot for asking.
> Are these people
> > really
> > > studying for the CCIE or studying at all? I admit, I have
> sent some
> crappy
> > > mails to the list asking something really simple, but
> then I discovered
> I
> > have
> > > a brain, and logically a mind. If used properly, you can
> do amazing
> things
> > > like find answers the questions you ask...look for god
> sake, using your
> > brain
> > > won't kill you. Ok, maybe for some of you, using your
> brain/mind is like
> a
> > > fighting for your life...and you know your always going to lose.
> > >
> > > For us un-numbered dreamers, we are working towards
> something and I mean
> > > really working making progress and getting better in what
> we know and
> what
> > we
> > > want to know.
> > >
> > > Asking questions about RIDS and how they effect OSPF /
> BGP...read the
> damn
> > > book or the web site. Don't what's not the lab? Find out
> by looking -
> not
> > > asking. Can't understand something? Try harder, spend
> some time, drink
> > lime
> > > juice or something. Er...what's OSPF? and why was BGP
> created? how do I
> > > configure IPSEC and why does this happen?
> > >
> > > Maybe I need to relax and think like these people? what
> and be brain
> > dead -
> > > think I know something when I don't even remember my name? I think
> > sometimes I
> > > am stuck in game with no name. It's a shame really, I
> think seeing the
> > matrix
> > > made me realise, maybe they were right and the matrix has
> forgotten to
> > give
> > > some people the ability to think that they are thinking
> for themselves.
> > > Remember those green letters coming down the screen?
> Well, for some of
> > you,
> > > that was the brain you never had.
> > >
> > > Call me what you want, say what you want...and for the
> few lucky few,
> > think
> > > what you want. I don't know everything but I know how to
> help myself and
> > > learn, think using my god given brain.
> > >
> > > Ok, know you can delete this mail. Blame it on me being
> on PMT and not
> > > spending enough time watching MTV.
> > >
> > > At the end, I was only thinking...spent way too much time
> typing this
> up,
> > so I
> > > see you when you get there...
> > >
> > > Jennifer_bellucci@hotmail.com
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