From: amilabs@optonline.net
Date: Thu Sep 19 2002 - 17:25:13 GMT-3
Well said Jim, even though I missed it on my first attempt it is a personal
goal and it was a fun challenge. You have to love this stuff and have it
almost as a hobby to go through the punishment. You are correct about the
marketing point. Having been in this business almost 20 years there used to
be an old adage about recommending IBM products. "Nobody ever got fired for
recommending IBM products" The same axiom currently applies to Cisco as
well....
/JS
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
Jim Brown
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 9:44 AM
To: rich; albert_lu@optushome.com.au; Meyer, J. (Johan); Tim Ross;
ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: MS-CCIE
I don't think it is even protected by a UPS. When California was having
power problems last summer the proctors told everyone to save their
configs frequently because of rolling black outs.
In any event, I don't believe Cisco uses the lab to generate revenue.
The lab program, if anything, is a drain on Cisco resources in my
opinion. Think about all the bright minds dedicated to the program. The
space the could be reallocated to another project.
Cisco maintains the program to push people to learn networking on their
products. This indirectly generates sales in the channel.
It is like AutoDesk donating software to colleges and universities. The
engineering students learn CAD on AutoDesk product and what do you think
happens when the graduate into the workforce. Do they select another CAD
package when they have the opportunity too choose?
AutoCAD is not the best product out there, but it is the most popular.
The CCIE program is an indirect tool to increase market share and
position. Nothing wrong with it, it is smart marketing.
I went for the CCIE because it was a challenge. I didn't do it for my
company, I did it for myself. I love this stuff and it was a personal
goal. It was brutal, but it was a great learning experience. The CCIE is
not worth what it was when I started, but I didn't do it for the money
in the first place.
It is just personal accomplishment.
-----Original Message-----
From: rich [mailto:rich@pixguru.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 5:53 AM
To: albert_lu@optushome.com.au; 'Meyer, J. (Johan)'; 'Tim Ross';
ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: MS-CCIE
Have you seen their lab? The one in San Jose doubles as a storage
closet..
It's well organized, but NOT data center like at all..
10 people a day at San Jose
That's $12,500 a day. Not bad for one proctor and their own assets.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Lu" <albert_lu@optushome.com.au>
To: "'Meyer, J. (Johan)'" <JohanMe@nedcor.com>; "'Tim Ross'"
<ross2k@pclv.com>; "'rich'" <rich@pixguru.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 4:14 AM
Subject: RE: MS-CCIE
> Actually from what I was told by a proctor, cisco doesn't really make
that
> much money from CCIE lab exams. Since they have to pretty much have a
mini
> 24x7 data centre for the lab with raised floors, ups, air
conditioning,
> power, rent, also salaries for proctors, plus not all labs are always
booked
> out. I've always thought that cisco would be making a killing with the
lab
> exams, but having worked in a datacentre in my past life I could
imagine
how
> all those costs could really add up.
>
> Albert Lu
> CCIE #8705
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
> Meyer, J. (Johan)
> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 5:18 PM
> To: 'Tim Ross'; rich; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: MS-CCIE
>
>
> Lets look at the BIG Picture!!
>
> Cisco is a Successful aggresive Bussiness so I dont think they will
limit
> this certification.
> It brings in a span of money!
> That is why it was changed from a 2 day to a 1 day LAB as before when
they
> could schedule
> max 2 labs a week they can now have 6 .Thats 3 times the revenue than
> before!!
> What succesful Bussiness man would turn that down!!
>
>
> Johan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Ross [mailto:ross2k@pclv.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 8:40 AM
> To: rich; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: MS-CCIE
>
>
> I'm not sure I get the point either. In your post you said you have
> experience, and got in the business for the money, yet you did not
become
a
> CCIE when you could make a lot of money by being a CCIE. Now that the
job
> market is not so good for CCIE's you want to become a CCIE. Also,
please
do
> not start limiting the number of CCIEs per country until after I pass.
> Thanks.
>
> Happy studying,
> Tim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rich" <rich@pixguru.com>
> To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 6:43 PM
> Subject: Re: MS-CCIE
>
>
> > Could you possibly miss the point any more?
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tom Larus" <tlarus@cox.net>
> > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 6:54 AM
> > Subject: MS-CCIE
> >
> >
> > > If the CCIE is not worth much these days, and you are in it
primarily
> for
> > > the
> > > money, and you already have a good job, and respect, and know so
much
> more
> > > than those "lab rat" CCIEs, just stop pursuing the CCIE.
> > >
> > > You don't need it.
> > >
> > > You should stand pat on your experience and be comfortable in
knowing
> that
> > > years of experience will always trump demonstrated intelligence.
> > >
> > > Tom Larus, CCIE #10,014
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "rich" <rich@pixguru.com>
> > > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 9:04 PM
> > > Subject: MS-CCIE
> > >
> > >
> > > > A couple of years ago, at the height of the dot com era, a CCIE
in
my
> > area
> > > > could easily pull in 150k. Did I start down this road for the
money?
> > > Hell
> > > > yes. I already had field experience, a good job, seniority,
respect,
> > and
> > > all
> > > > that stuff that makes work fun. Besides, CCIE would be a
challenge.
> > But
> > > a
> > > > LOT has changed in the past couple of years. Bad economy.
Fewer
> jobs.
> > > > Lowered salaries. And apparently a butt load of CCIE's! I mean
wow!
> > And
> > > to
> > > > hear that many of them are just lab ccie's really brings the
8000+
> > CCIE's
> > > into
> > > > a different light. It brings my own efforts into the same
light.
It
> > > reminds
> > > > me of what happened to Novell certifications... I had just
gotten my
> CNE
> > > when
> > > > I heard the term 'paper CNE' about a guy at the same company who
> carried
> > > cue
> > > > cards around to customers with commands written on them.
> > > >
> > > > I haven't gotten my ccie yet but I'm hoping to. My chances
would
> > probably
> > > be
> > > > greatly enhanced by going to a boot-camp, but I feel that would
just
> add
> > > to
> > > > the problem. Maybe limiting the number of active CCIE's in a
country
> > > would
> > > > keep the certification from getting too bloated. Or maybe just
stop
> the
> > > > certification process now or at a fixed number. Or better yet,
allow
> no
> > > more
> > > > than 1000 a year (total) to be certified. Candidate selection
process
> > > could
> > > > be a weighted drawing (increased chances every year).
> > > >
> > > > I'm not trying to criticize anyone's efforts, but rather express
the
> > > results
> > > > of those efforts. It's kind of liking moving into a new, quiet,
> > expensive
> > > > neighborhood. It's great until everyone else moves in, and
suddenly
> > that
> > > > expensive house isn't worth what you paid for it.
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Mon Oct 07 2002 - 07:43:57 GMT-3