From: Kelly Cobean (kcobean@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Date: Fri Jul 12 2002 - 23:13:45 GMT-3
Anthony,
I like your analogy, however, it's not really a fair comparison.
First, a book has no hardware/software components, so it would be a little
hard to return the ink and just resell the paper ;-) Secondly, have you
ever purchased a book that had a license agreement on the inside cover
stating that the manufacturer prohibited the resale of the book without the
purchaser re-licensing from the manufacturer? It wouldn't surprise me to
see it, but as of yet, I never have.
Like I said, I don't really agree with this EULA, and it's a completely
unenforceable License, I was just wondering if Groupstudy placed itself in
any jeopardy by creating a forum for "illegal transactions" like this to
take place.
It's kind of like the thing with Napster, although that concerned full-blown
reproduction of copyrighted material. They got shut down because they
created a forum for people to violate a "license" of sorts, known as
copyright law. I don't know if there were any lawsuits against them as a
result, but do you see what I'm getting at?
Thanks for the thoughts, it's been interesting to see the responses. I
actually had one guy write and call me a nosy ***** and tell me to mind my
own business?!?!?! Sheesh!
Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
Anthony Pace
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 11:21 PM
To: Kelly Cobean; ccielab
Subject: RE: OT - CCIE #9651, Lab for SALE
Does this mean I am violating the law when I donate books or a school
recycles text books? I think if I began mass producing the books the
answer would be yes but if I give away the one copy I payed for,
wouldn't the answer be no?
Anthony Pace
On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:25:20 -0400, "Kelly Cobean"
<kcobean@earthlink.net> said:
> Craig,
> I completely agree. If I buy 1 copy of something, I ought to be
> able to
> sell that same copy, because after all, I own it don't I. The
> paragraph
> from Cisco almost presents a picture that we are really just "leasing",
> if
> you will, the software for the duration of our ownership of the router,
> after which time we must relinquish our lease back to Cisco. It's
> definitely a strong-arm tactic on behalf of Cisco that most people
> don't
> seem to acknowledge, but we still agree to it when we use the software,
> and
> especially when we go and download images from CCO. Some people on the
> list
> took this message a little more personally, as I have already received
> several "hate mails" for my even suggesting that they adhere to this
> costly
> legality. But, like I said, I'm more concerned about any liability
> that
> groupstudy might incur for providing a "vehicle" to conduct such
> transactions. Oh, well.....
>
> Kelly Cobean, CCNP, CCSA, ACSA, MCSE, MCP+I
> Network Engineer
> AT&T Government Solutions, Inc.
>
> Disclaimer:
> The opinions expressed herein are those of the author alone, and do not
> necessarily relfect those of AT&T Government Solutions, Inc., it's
> management, or it's affiliates.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Craig Columbus [mailto:Craig.Columbus@columbusconsulting.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 5:19 PM
> To: Kelly Cobean
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: OT - CCIE #9651, Lab for SALE
>
>
> No, you're correct. When you sell Cisco hardware, the license doesn't
> transfer.
>
> Personally, I disagree that the restriction should even be
> legal. Obviously, there has to be a restriction that prevents someone
> from
> buying a single copy of software and then distributing copies of that
> software for personal profit. However, if I buy something (hardware or
> software), I should have full and unrestricted ability to resell the
> items
> I purchased at any point I see fit. If I buy a router and buy the IOS
> version, I should be able to sell the router and the IOS version to
> anyone
> at anytime. Unfortunately, Cisco doesn't see it this way. They make
> much
> more money when they require the IOS to be purchased everytime a router
> is
> sold.
>
> My $0.02...
> Craig
>
>
>
> At 04:29 PM 7/11/2002 -0400, you wrote:
> >All,
> > I'd like to post something for contemplation, not to direct at Dale
> >specifically, but this is something that continually concerns me when I
see
> >people selling Cisco equipment. Please read the following paragraph from
> >the Cisco's Policy on Software License Transfer:
> >
> >"Like many high-tech companies that produce software, Cisco adopts a
policy
> >of non-transferability of its software in order to protect its
intellectual
> >property rights. What this means in practice is that owners of Cisco
> >products are only allowed to transfer, re-sell or re-lease used Cisco
> >hardware and not the embedded software that runs on the hardware. This
> >policy also applies to Cisco standalone software applications."
> >
> >I interpret this to mean that if you buy a router from someone, and it
> >includes a software image, you have not purchased the software, and must
> >purchase that from Cisco. I realize that few people pay attention to
this,
> >but it would be a shame to see GroupStudy get involved in any legal
actions
> >due to software licensing violations.
> >
> >Am I reading this right, or has the legal jargon gotten away from me?
> >
> >The thread below made me go check on this because I have not met anyone
> with
> >a home lab that contained this many Enterprise Plus IPSEC/3Des images
that
> >were legally licensed, and the cost of something like this, I would
> imagine,
> >is in the thousands of dollars.
> >
> >Input welcome!
> >
> >
> >Kelly Cobean, CCNP, CCSA, ACSA, MCSE, MCP+I
> >Network Engineer
> >AT&T Government Solutions, Inc.
> >
> >Disclaimer:
> >The opinions expressed herein are those of the author alone, and do not
> >necessarily relfect those of AT&T Government Solutions, Inc., it's
> >management, or it's affiliates.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
> >Brouwer Dale-ADB080
> >Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 1:04 PM
> >To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> >Subject: OT - CCIE #9651, Lab for SALE
> >
> >
> >Since I passed the CCIE exam on Monday (CCIE # 9651), my home lab is now
> for
> >sale.
> >Anything I don't sell will be posted on E-Bay the last week of July.
> >
> >I would like to sell it whole or in large chunks, preferrably to someone
> >close by for pickup/delivery (Chicago Area).
> >
> >All 9 2500 series routers are 16 or 18 MB RAM / 16 MB FLASH with latest
> boot
> >ROMs.
> >All 9 2500 series routers are running 12.1(15) Enterprise Plus IPSec 56.
> >The 1604 is 18 MB RAM / 8 MB FLASH with latest boot roms.
> >---
> >Teltone ISDN Demonstrator - ISDN Simulator
> >PolyCom Triple NT1 (for use with Teltone)
> >Cisco Catalyst 2901 LAN Switch - running 4-5-13a software
> >Cisco 2523 - 1TR, 10 Serial, 1 BRI
> >Cisco 2521 - 1TR, 4 Serial, 1 BRI
> >Cisco 2520 - 1 Ethernet, 4 Serial, 1 BRI
> >Cisco 2516 - 16 Port Hub, 2 Serial, 1 BRI
> >Cisco 2514 - 2 Ethernet, 2 Serial
> >Cisco 2514 - 2 Ethernet, 2 Serial
> >Cisco 2513 - 1 Ethernet, 1 TR, 2 Serial
> >Cisco 2511-RJ - 16 Async, 1 Ethernet, 1 Serial
> >Cisco 2501 - 1 Ethernet, 2 Serial
> >Cisco 1604 with Serial WIC - 1 Ethernet, 1 Serial, 1 BRI
> >7 10BaseT Transceivers
> >2 IBM 8228 Token Ring MAUs
> >2 Token Ring NICs (1 PCI, 1 ISA)
> >7 3' DCE-DTE Back-to-Back Serial Cables
> >2 6' DTE Serial Cables
> >2 6' DCE Serial Cables
> >8 Token Ring Cables (15 PIN to MAU)
> >~10 ethernet & crossover cables
> >Power cords/adaptors for everything
> >4 sets of 2500 series rack mounting brackets
> >Lots of console cables & connectors
> >---
> >Looking for about $5500 for the whole works
> >
> >Cheers,
> >---
> >Dale Brouwer, Lead Network Engineer
> > > NS - CGISS - GTDG - WSDD - SIT
> >Motorola Inc., Schaumburg, Illinois, USA
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