From: Anthony Pace (anthonypace@xxxxxxxxxxx)
Date: Sat Jul 13 2002 - 20:07:49 GMT-3
Then a better analogy would be small bars and resturants which have the
radio on without paying BMI or ASCAP fee's; or have the TV on with a
ball game on. Large franchises usually have their own "generic music"
of pay the royalties. So I would think SPRINT would need to be on top
of the license issues, but that private citizens building CCIE labs are
kind of in the same camp as the little bar with the ball game on.
Anthony Pace
On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 22:13:45 -0400, "Kelly Cobean"
<kcobean@earthlink.net> said:
> Anthony,
> I like your analogy, however, it's not really a fair comparison.
> First, a book has no hardware/software components, so it would be a
> little
> hard to return the ink and just resell the paper ;-) Secondly, have
> you
> ever purchased a book that had a license agreement on the inside cover
> stating that the manufacturer prohibited the resale of the book without
> the
> purchaser re-licensing from the manufacturer? It wouldn't surprise me
> to
> see it, but as of yet, I never have.
>
> Like I said, I don't really agree with this EULA, and it's a completely
> unenforceable License, I was just wondering if Groupstudy placed itself
> in
> any jeopardy by creating a forum for "illegal transactions" like this
> to
> take place.
>
> It's kind of like the thing with Napster, although that concerned
> full-blown
> reproduction of copyrighted material. They got shut down because they
> created a forum for people to violate a "license" of sorts, known as
> copyright law. I don't know if there were any lawsuits against them as
> a
> result, but do you see what I'm getting at?
>
> Thanks for the thoughts, it's been interesting to see the responses. I
> actually had one guy write and call me a nosy ***** and tell me to mind
> my
> own business?!?!?! Sheesh!
>
> Kelly
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
> Anthony Pace
> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 11:21 PM
> To: Kelly Cobean; ccielab
> Subject: RE: OT - CCIE #9651, Lab for SALE
>
>
> Does this mean I am violating the law when I donate books or a school
> recycles text books? I think if I began mass producing the books the
> answer would be yes but if I give away the one copy I payed for,
> wouldn't the answer be no?
>
> Anthony Pace
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:25:20 -0400, "Kelly Cobean"
> <kcobean@earthlink.net> said:
> > Craig,
> > I completely agree. If I buy 1 copy of something, I ought to be
> > able to
> > sell that same copy, because after all, I own it don't I. The
> > paragraph
> > from Cisco almost presents a picture that we are really just "leasing",
> > if
> > you will, the software for the duration of our ownership of the router,
> > after which time we must relinquish our lease back to Cisco. It's
> > definitely a strong-arm tactic on behalf of Cisco that most people
> > don't
> > seem to acknowledge, but we still agree to it when we use the software,
> > and
> > especially when we go and download images from CCO. Some people on the
> > list
> > took this message a little more personally, as I have already received
> > several "hate mails" for my even suggesting that they adhere to this
> > costly
> > legality. But, like I said, I'm more concerned about any liability
> > that
> > groupstudy might incur for providing a "vehicle" to conduct such
> > transactions. Oh, well.....
> >
> > Kelly Cobean, CCNP, CCSA, ACSA, MCSE, MCP+I
> > Network Engineer
> > AT&T Government Solutions, Inc.
> >
> > Disclaimer:
> > The opinions expressed herein are those of the author alone, and do not
> > necessarily relfect those of AT&T Government Solutions, Inc., it's
> > management, or it's affiliates.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Craig Columbus [mailto:Craig.Columbus@columbusconsulting.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 5:19 PM
> > To: Kelly Cobean
> > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: OT - CCIE #9651, Lab for SALE
> >
> >
> > No, you're correct. When you sell Cisco hardware, the license doesn't
> > transfer.
> >
> > Personally, I disagree that the restriction should even be
> > legal. Obviously, there has to be a restriction that prevents someone
> > from
> > buying a single copy of software and then distributing copies of that
> > software for personal profit. However, if I buy something (hardware or
> > software), I should have full and unrestricted ability to resell the
> > items
> > I purchased at any point I see fit. If I buy a router and buy the IOS
> > version, I should be able to sell the router and the IOS version to
> > anyone
> > at anytime. Unfortunately, Cisco doesn't see it this way. They make
> > much
> > more money when they require the IOS to be purchased everytime a router
> > is
> > sold.
> >
> > My $0.02...
> > Craig
> >
> >
> >
> > At 04:29 PM 7/11/2002 -0400, you wrote:
> > >All,
> > > I'd like to post something for contemplation, not to direct at Dale
> > >specifically, but this is something that continually concerns me when I
> see
> > >people selling Cisco equipment. Please read the following paragraph from
> > >the Cisco's Policy on Software License Transfer:
> > >
> > >"Like many high-tech companies that produce software, Cisco adopts a
> policy
> > >of non-transferability of its software in order to protect its
> intellectual
> > >property rights. What this means in practice is that owners of Cisco
> > >products are only allowed to transfer, re-sell or re-lease used Cisco
> > >hardware and not the embedded software that runs on the hardware. This
> > >policy also applies to Cisco standalone software applications."
> > >
> > >I interpret this to mean that if you buy a router from someone, and it
> > >includes a software image, you have not purchased the software, and must
> > >purchase that from Cisco. I realize that few people pay attention to
> this,
> > >but it would be a shame to see GroupStudy get involved in any legal
> actions
> > >due to software licensing violations.
> > >
> > >Am I reading this right, or has the legal jargon gotten away from me?
> > >
> > >The thread below made me go check on this because I have not met anyone
> > with
> > >a home lab that contained this many Enterprise Plus IPSEC/3Des images
> that
> > >were legally licensed, and the cost of something like this, I would
> > imagine,
> > >is in the thousands of dollars.
> > >
> > >Input welcome!
> > >
> > >
> > >Kelly Cobean, CCNP, CCSA, ACSA, MCSE, MCP+I
> > >Network Engineer
> > >AT&T Government Solutions, Inc.
> > >
> > >Disclaimer:
> > >The opinions expressed herein are those of the author alone, and do not
> > >necessarily relfect those of AT&T Government Solutions, Inc., it's
> > >management, or it's affiliates.
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
> > >Brouwer Dale-ADB080
> > >Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 1:04 PM
> > >To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > >Subject: OT - CCIE #9651, Lab for SALE
> > >
> > >
> > >Since I passed the CCIE exam on Monday (CCIE # 9651), my home lab is now
> > for
> > >sale.
> > >Anything I don't sell will be posted on E-Bay the last week of July.
> > >
> > >I would like to sell it whole or in large chunks, preferrably to someone
> > >close by for pickup/delivery (Chicago Area).
> > >
> > >All 9 2500 series routers are 16 or 18 MB RAM / 16 MB FLASH with latest
> > boot
> > >ROMs.
> > >All 9 2500 series routers are running 12.1(15) Enterprise Plus IPSec 56.
> > >The 1604 is 18 MB RAM / 8 MB FLASH with latest boot roms.
> > >---
> > >Teltone ISDN Demonstrator - ISDN Simulator
> > >PolyCom Triple NT1 (for use with Teltone)
> > >Cisco Catalyst 2901 LAN Switch - running 4-5-13a software
> > >Cisco 2523 - 1TR, 10 Serial, 1 BRI
> > >Cisco 2521 - 1TR, 4 Serial, 1 BRI
> > >Cisco 2520 - 1 Ethernet, 4 Serial, 1 BRI
> > >Cisco 2516 - 16 Port Hub, 2 Serial, 1 BRI
> > >Cisco 2514 - 2 Ethernet, 2 Serial
> > >Cisco 2514 - 2 Ethernet, 2 Serial
> > >Cisco 2513 - 1 Ethernet, 1 TR, 2 Serial
> > >Cisco 2511-RJ - 16 Async, 1 Ethernet, 1 Serial
> > >Cisco 2501 - 1 Ethernet, 2 Serial
> > >Cisco 1604 with Serial WIC - 1 Ethernet, 1 Serial, 1 BRI
> > >7 10BaseT Transceivers
> > >2 IBM 8228 Token Ring MAUs
> > >2 Token Ring NICs (1 PCI, 1 ISA)
> > >7 3' DCE-DTE Back-to-Back Serial Cables
> > >2 6' DTE Serial Cables
> > >2 6' DCE Serial Cables
> > >8 Token Ring Cables (15 PIN to MAU)
> > >~10 ethernet & crossover cables
> > >Power cords/adaptors for everything
> > >4 sets of 2500 series rack mounting brackets
> > >Lots of console cables & connectors
> > >---
> > >Looking for about $5500 for the whole works
> > >
> > >Cheers,
> > >---
> > >Dale Brouwer, Lead Network Engineer
> > > > NS - CGISS - GTDG - WSDD - SIT
> > >Motorola Inc., Schaumburg, Illinois, USA
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