From: Bola Adegbonmire (BolaAD@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Date: Fri May 31 2002 - 16:38:26 GMT-3
Nice one Tom.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Larus [mailto:tlarus@novacoxmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 8:38 PM
To: Chris Trevino; 'Emmanuel Oppong'; Ccielab@Groupstudy. Com
Subject: Re: CCIE: FOOD FOR THOUGHT
You talked to one hiring manager. I am sure there are many others who
might say the same thing right now, but that does not mean that they
represent all or even most hiring managers at all times. Of course
CCIEs are seen as cheaper/less special now, in the midst one of the
worst markets for telecom and computer networking that has ever existed.
As long as we keep hearing about the many folks who fail the Lab,
experienced and otherwise, at least a few hiring managers will recognize
that it took some serious learning, persistence, and intelligence to
pass
the Lab Exam. I would not hire a lab rat to be the top network guru
anywhere, but neither would I dismiss him as a candidate without value,
fit only to ghost PCs and upgrade IOSs for several years until we can
trust him to draft a network design or router configuration.
In terms of intelligence, analytical ability, and drive, the "lab rat"
may have every bit as much to offer a potential employer as the
experienced networker who paid his dues over many hard years by doing
everything from setting up radios, running cable, programming Cobol,
ghosting PCs, to setting up ATM equipment and configuring countless
routers. I think employers need all kinds of people with all kinds of
backgrounds, and I am just sick of having the hard work I and many
others do in our practice labs deprecated.
At the risk of stirring up class hatred, I see a parallel between the
officer and enlisted situation. The experienced enlisted man has
crucial knowledge and experience that the young officer just out of
college lack. (The young officer who fails to recognize this reality
will fail miserably.) Sometimes the enlisted man may resent that some
college kid walks in with a whole bunch of book learning and gets paid
more and enjoys higher status (in some ways) than he does. (He may even
deprecate the college kid as having done more than drink and party for
four years, the same way some folks deprecate the lab rat's work
practicing on equipment.) Should we run a military without any college
kid officers? Some might say yes, and that the only proper way to
become an officer is to come up through the ranks.
There must be reasons that the military accepts college kids (often with
no street smarts)as officers. There must be something these people add
to the mix. Perhaps it's some ability at analytical thinking, writing,
and other skills developed in college or in preparation for college. In
the same way, some of us lab rats happen to be gifted with good minds,
fortunate enough to have attended good high schools, colleges, and grad
schools, where we developed our analytical skills.
I am coming to this from having practiced law, taught law part-time, and
drafted appeals court opinions as a clerk for a State Supreme Court
Justice. If I pass the CCIE, will I be completely without value to an
employer, simply because I do not have years and years of industry
experience. The answer right now, I think, may be yes, but I think that
answer will change as the economy improves. Perhaps even that CCIE
hiring manager will change his tune when the economy improves and you
walk in after having passed the Lab Exam.
---- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Trevino" <ctrevino@inflow.com>
To: "'Emmanuel Oppong'" <e-oppong@attbi.com>; "Ccielab@Groupstudy. Com"
<ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:43 PM
Subject: RE: CCIE: FOOD FOR THOUGHT
> I recently had the same experience when interviewing for a consultant
> position. I indicated that I have my lab date scheduled for less than
> 2 months away and that I would like to get the certification to help
> obtain more consulting jobs. The hiring manager said that he had 3
> CCIE's on
staff
> and that it really wasn't a big deal anymore for the customers
> "because there are alot more CCIE's out there now then before."
>
> My take on the whole thing is that, to be a Senior level Cisco
> Engineer
the
> CCIE helps. I also personally know 2 guys who have less then 2 years
> experience total in networking and are CCIE's. I wouldn't trust
> either of them with a large network design, but they sure know alot
> about passing
the
> lab. Just my opinion.
>
> Christopher Trevino
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Emmanuel Oppong [mailto:e-oppong@attbi.com]
> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 9:55 AM
> To: Ccielab@Groupstudy. Com
> Subject: CCIE: FOOD FOR THOUGHT
>
>
> I interviewed recently for a sr. networking position and mentioned to
> the interviewing manager, in passing, that I will be taking my ccie
> lab soon. His response got me thinking and wondered what your thoughts
> are. This is exacltly his response:
>
> "Guys these days pass ccie depending on what test they get. ccie is
> rediculous these days since the scenarios and questions asked are
> non-real life and no good practicing engineer will ever use the
> methods stipulated
in
> the test" And then he goes on to say: "If you tune you ears to
> groupstudy.com and pay attention to some of the rediculous questions
> and scenarios being posed, then maybe you have a chance of passing".
> Guess what? This guy is a ccie himself with a number in the 3000s.
> By the way,
I
> didn't piss him off for him to say these things, he actually was very
> impressed with my years of experience and educational background.
>
> It has gotten me thinking and quite frustrated at the thought of this
> certification being branded as "ridiculous" by the same employers we
> are trying to prove that we have top notch certification.
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