From: Manny Gonzalez (manny@xxxxxxx)
Date: Tue Apr 30 2002 - 21:11:04 GMT-3
Jump ship... hurry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh my god, hell is coming... AHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:-))))
-------------------------- falls on a sword.
DAve Diaz wrote:
>
> CCIE is on the way down no doubt about it, the economy doesn't help either
>
> >From: Jason Sinclair <sinclairj@powertel.com.au>
> >Reply-To: Jason Sinclair <sinclairj@powertel.com.au>
> >To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> >Subject: RE: CCIE #9240
> >Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 08:48:06 +1000
> >
> >Firstly, to Munib, congratulations!
> >
> >Secondly, what a crock of horseshit!! Why did you all bother doing it if it
> >is worthless. It really pisses me off that some of you work to achieve your
> >goals and then bag others who achieve it. I have 8 years experience in
> >networking, and a CCIE. I also employ staff in this field and manage an
> >entire operations centre. My theory is that you check the guy or gal you
> >are
> >hiring and see what they know. CCIE proves some things and experience
> >proves
> >others. Quit all this crap about CCIE going downhill, CCIE not going
> >downhill, etc. How about you focus on your studies and forget this shit.
> >
> >Remember, getting the CCIE does not mean you know it all, and neither does
> >experience.
> >
> >Jason Sinclair CCIE #9100
> >Manager, Network Support Group
> >POWERTEL
> >Ground Level, 55 Clarence Street,
> >SYDNEY NSW 2000
> >AUSTRALIA
> >office: + 61 2 8264 3820
> >mobile: + 61 416 105 858
> >* sinclairj@powertel.com.au
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Peter Rosenthal [mailto:perosenthal@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 1 May 2002 04:10
> > To: thomas larus; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: Re: CCIE #9240
> >
> > I see your point, but you are greatly exagerrating what I am
> >saying. Sure
> > he would be allowed in my data center. But, only under
> >close supervision as
> > an apprentice. He certainly would not have uncontrolled
> >access and that is
> > what I meant. I would not require someone to spend years
> >doing cabling. I
> > do not even know what his prior experience is. It would
> >make a HUGE
> > difference if he spent the last 10 years doing Unix and NT
> >administration at
> > a high level or any IT job for that matter. In that case
> >then sure he would
> > be allowed to work on the network with a lot less
> >supervision. But, if he's
> > a 22 yr old that just graduated college and decided to
> >become a CCIE a year
> > later then he's still a lab rat that needs to put in his
> >time. Even Cisco
> > recommends a minimum of 2 years experience prior to taking
> >the lab.
> > Personally, I think someone should have at least 3-4 years
> >of Cisco
> > experience. Clearly the number of people passing with less
> >than 2 years
> > experience is growing by the day and I'm sure that trend
> >will continue until
> > it's something that high school kids start obtaining.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "thomas larus" <tlarus@mwc.edu>
> > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>; <perosenthal@hotmail.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:07 PM
> > Subject: Re: CCIE #9240
> >
> >
> > "However, I know that no "Junior CCIE" or lab rat with a few
> >months
> > experience is even going to get a badge to get in my data
> >center let alone
> > be responsible for one of my networks."
> > <p>
> > Of course you should not make someone who is just really,
> >really good at
> > learning this material the chief of your entire network, but
> >you would not
> > even give him a badge to get into your data center to
> >apprentice as a junior
> > network engineer. That's just plain offensive. No I guess
> >he needs to pay
> > his dues. He needs to avoid getting his CCIE until he has
> >spent the
> > requisite 4 years doing physical wiring, changing out the
> >backup tapes,
> > ghosting PCs. Then, you will let him get his CCNA and work
> >for another
> > four years doing whatever you consider appropriate
> >CCNA-level work. Then,
> > after eight years, you would permit him to start studying
> >for the CCIE, I
> > guess.
> >
> > I really admire the folks who learned their networking by
> >many years of
> > hard work in, say the military, doing everything from
> >running wire,
> > programming, setting up radios to making the ATM network run
> >right. This,
> > in my view, is an optimal way to build a networking career.
> >Many of these
> > people were underpaid for many years, and it is beautiful to
> >see them
> > finally rewarded for all their hard-work.
> > <p>
> > But some of us did not come to it that way. Some of us had
> >the misfortune
> > of spending years in graduate school or in some other
> >challenging field when
> > we could have been racking up years of experience in
> >computer networking.
> > Perhaps such a career-changer might not be the equal of
> >someone with 20
> > years of experience, but he should not even be permitted
> >into your data
> > center, even though he has proven that he can learn VERY
> >difficult material
> > through intensive study and unpaid hands-on experience.
> >
> > I left a job in a dying internet data center dot com to
> >concentrate on my
> > ccie studies, because I found that after a certain point in
> >some "industry"
> > jobs there are diminishing marginal returns in terms of what
> >you learn after
> > a certain point. If I had looked for another "industry" job
> >at that time, I
> > would not have found anything that would have permitted me
> >to learn what I
> > have learned in the last nine months or so.
> >
> >
> > Peter Rosenthal" <perosenthal@hotmail.com> 04/30/02 11:18 AM
> > >>>
> > Completely agree with Rob about the dog comment. Although
> >unless the lab
> > becomes a Sylvan test it will never become like the MCSE or
> >any other
> > written test. However, I know that no "Junior CCIE" or lab
> >rat with a few
> > months experience is even going to get a badge to get in my
> >data center let
> > alone be responsible for one of my networks. Anyone that
> >lets someone with
> > 16 months experience run their network is simply asking for
> >trouble. No
> > matter how smart a person is you can't possibly obtain the
> >necessary
> > experience to run a complex multiprotocol network in that
> >amount of time.
> >
> > This is not the last we are going to here of this sort of
> >thing. There will
> > be plenty more stories of "janitor to CCIE" or "secretary to
> >CCIE" (already
> > saw this one and laughed quite a bit) in the span of a few
> >months. Schools
> > will crop up all over the place advertising get your CCIE in
> >6 months. The
> > CCIE program will once again adapt to the "demand" of people
> >wanting to take
> > the test and make some other dramatic change to funnel us in
> >and out of the
> > exam as quickly as possible while comprising its integrity.
> >Don't be
> > surprised if someday the exam is the point, select and click
> >either A, B, C,
> > or D for the right answer. But hey that's fine. The CCIE
> >will someday be
> > replaced just as all the great certs before it. It was a
> >fun ride while it
> > lasted, but its almost over. Hope you guys enjoyed the
> >ride!
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Robert Carter" <Robert.Carter2@telus.com>
> > To: <ccielab@groupstud.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 9:23 AM
> > Subject: RE: CCIE #9240
> >
> >
> > > Oh boy. I'm gona get some hate mail for this but...
> > >
> > > This is clear proof that the CCIE is heading towards
> >MCSE-land. Here is
> > > another great example of someone who basically had their
> >CCIE bought for
> > > them. What happed to experience? This person has hardly
> >seen a router 16
> > > months ago! What does this say about the future of the
> >CCIE? I have worked
> > > with a disturbingly large amount of CCIEs who
> >inadvertently trash the
> > > certification because they completely fail in real world
> >environments.
> > >
> > > With repetition and incentive you can teach any dog a
> >trick.
> > >
> > > Rob
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Church, Chuck [mailto:cchurch@USTA.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 7:52 AM
> > > To: 'Khan Munib'; 'ccielab@groupstudy.com'
> > > Subject: RE: CCIE #9240
> > >
> > >
> > > Kahn,
> > >
> > > Congratulations. It's a tough journey, without a doubt.
> >But your
> > > persistence paid off.
> > >
> > > P.S. The CCIE online store is now open, according to an
> >email I got the
> > > other day. Nice stuff they've got!
> > >
> > > Chuck Church
> > > Sr. Network Engineer
> > > CCIE #8776, MCNE, MCSE
> > > US Tennis Association
> > > 70 W. Red Oak Lane
> > > White Plains, NY 10604
> > > 914-696-7199
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com
> >[mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
> > > Khan Munib
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 6:22 AM
> > > To: 'ccielab@groupstudy.com'
> > > Subject: CCIE #9240
> > >
> > >
> > > Well Finally it my turn to send this mail!!!!!
> > >
> > > Passed yesterday in Brussels (3rd attempt). I was
> >beginning to wonder if
> > I
> > > would ever get there. Firstly I would like to thank God
> >without who
> > nothing
> > > is possible. I would also like to thank my family for
> >their immense
> > support
> > > and patience.
> > >
> > > It's been a hectic 16 month Journey from Dec 2000 when I
> >attained my CCNA
> > > and was just getting into networking and had hardly seen a
> >cisco router.
> > I
> > > have learnt so much over the last year, when I look back I
> >cant believe
> > how
> > > far I've com. My company, Fujitsu (formerly ICL) has
> >given me excellent
> > > support and carried the bill for all my exam attempts etc.
> >I would also
> > > like to send a special Thank you to all at Netlogic
> >Consulting, They have
> > > guided me along the whole path through CCNA, NP and IE.
> >Their courses
> > were
> > > excellent and their after sales support proved invaluable
> >to me in getting
> > > prepared for the LAB. I would seriously recommend any of
> >you guys in the
> > > UK who are looking for a CCIE prep course to consider
> >them,
> > > www.netlogicconsulting.com, their lab scenarios were key
> >to me
> > understanding
> > > and learning all the different technologies.
> > >
> > > This list has also provided a great resource to find out
> >info for
> > > me.......Although I have been a relatively passive member
> >I have learnt a
> > > great deal from the discussions and also been greatly
> >amused by some of
> > the
> > > OT discussions. Keep up the hard work everyone and don't
> >give
> > > up.........everyone can get there in the end.
> > >
> > > This email is only for the use of its intended recipient.
> >Its contents are
> > > confidential and may be privileged. Fujitsu Services does
> >not guarantee
> > that
> > > this email has not been intercepted and amended or that it
> >is virus-free.
> > >
> > > Munib Ali Khan
> > > <<...OLE_Obj...>>
> > > Network Services
> > > Cavendish Road, Stevenage, Hertfordshire, SG1 2DY
> > > Tel: +44 (0) 870 234 8171 Internal: 7301 5515
> > > Mob: +44 (0) 7867 823214
> > > Fax: +44 (0) 870 234 9199 Internal: 7301 6531
> > > E-mail: Munib.Khan@services.fujitsu.com
> > > Web: services.fujitsu.com
> > >
> > > Fujitsu Services Limited, Registered In England no 96056,
> >Registered
> > Office
> > > 26, Finsbury Square, London, EC2A 1SL
> > >
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