From: thomas larus (tlarus@xxxxxxx)
Date: Tue Apr 30 2002 - 13:07:16 GMT-3
"However, I know that no "Junior CCIE" or lab rat with a few months experience
is even going to get a badge to get in my data center let alone be responsible
for one of my networks."
<p>
Of course you should not make someone who is just really, really good at learni
ng this material the chief of your entire network, but you would not even give
him a badge to get into your data center to apprentice as a junior network engi
neer. That's just plain offensive. No I guess he needs to pay his dues. He n
eeds to avoid getting his CCIE until he has spent the requisite 4 years doing p
hysical wiring, changing out the backup tapes, ghosting PCs. Then, you will le
t him get his CCNA and work for another four years doing whatever you consider
appropriate CCNA-level work. Then, after eight years, you would permit him to
start studying for the CCIE, I guess.
I really admire the folks who learned their networking by many years of hard
work in, say the military, doing everything from running wire, programming, set
ting up radios to making the ATM network run right. This, in my view, is an op
timal way to build a networking career. Many of these people were underpaid fo
r many years, and it is beautiful to see them finally rewarded for all their ha
rd-work.
<p>
But some of us did not come to it that way. Some of us had the misfortune of s
pending years in graduate school or in some other challenging field when we cou
ld have been racking up years of experience in computer networking. Perhaps su
ch a career-changer might not be the equal of someone with 20 years of experie
nce, but he should not even be permitted into your data center, even though he
has proven that he can learn VERY difficult material through intensive study an
d unpaid hands-on experience.
I left a job in a dying internet data center dot com to concentrate on my ccie
studies, because I found that after a certain point in some "industry" jobs the
re are diminishing marginal returns in terms of what you learn after a certain
point. If I had looked for another "industry" job at that time, I would not ha
ve found anything that would have permitted me to learn what I have learned in
the last nine months or so.
Peter Rosenthal" <perosenthal@hotmail.com> 04/30/02 11:18 AM >>>
Completely agree with Rob about the dog comment. Although unless the lab
becomes a Sylvan test it will never become like the MCSE or any other
written test. However, I know that no "Junior CCIE" or lab rat with a few
months experience is even going to get a badge to get in my data center let
alone be responsible for one of my networks. Anyone that lets someone with
16 months experience run their network is simply asking for trouble. No
matter how smart a person is you can't possibly obtain the necessary
experience to run a complex multiprotocol network in that amount of time.
This is not the last we are going to here of this sort of thing. There will
be plenty more stories of "janitor to CCIE" or "secretary to CCIE" (already
saw this one and laughed quite a bit) in the span of a few months. Schools
will crop up all over the place advertising get your CCIE in 6 months. The
CCIE program will once again adapt to the "demand" of people wanting to take
the test and make some other dramatic change to funnel us in and out of the
exam as quickly as possible while comprising its integrity. Don't be
surprised if someday the exam is the point, select and click either A, B, C,
or D for the right answer. But hey that's fine. The CCIE will someday be
replaced just as all the great certs before it. It was a fun ride while it
lasted, but its almost over. Hope you guys enjoyed the ride!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Carter" <Robert.Carter2@telus.com>
To: <ccielab@groupstud.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 9:23 AM
Subject: RE: CCIE #9240
> Oh boy. I'm gona get some hate mail for this but...
>
> This is clear proof that the CCIE is heading towards MCSE-land. Here is
> another great example of someone who basically had their CCIE bought for
> them. What happed to experience? This person has hardly seen a router 16
> months ago! What does this say about the future of the CCIE? I have worked
> with a disturbingly large amount of CCIEs who inadvertently trash the
> certification because they completely fail in real world environments.
>
> With repetition and incentive you can teach any dog a trick.
>
> Rob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Church, Chuck [mailto:cchurch@USTA.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 7:52 AM
> To: 'Khan Munib'; 'ccielab@groupstudy.com'
> Subject: RE: CCIE #9240
>
>
> Kahn,
>
> Congratulations. It's a tough journey, without a doubt. But your
> persistence paid off.
>
> P.S. The CCIE online store is now open, according to an email I got the
> other day. Nice stuff they've got!
>
> Chuck Church
> Sr. Network Engineer
> CCIE #8776, MCNE, MCSE
> US Tennis Association
> 70 W. Red Oak Lane
> White Plains, NY 10604
> 914-696-7199
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
> Khan Munib
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 6:22 AM
> To: 'ccielab@groupstudy.com'
> Subject: CCIE #9240
>
>
> Well Finally it my turn to send this mail!!!!!
>
> Passed yesterday in Brussels (3rd attempt). I was beginning to wonder if
I
> would ever get there. Firstly I would like to thank God without who
nothing
> is possible. I would also like to thank my family for their immense
support
> and patience.
>
> It's been a hectic 16 month Journey from Dec 2000 when I attained my CCNA
> and was just getting into networking and had hardly seen a cisco router.
I
> have learnt so much over the last year, when I look back I cant believe
how
> far I've com. My company, Fujitsu (formerly ICL) has given me excellent
> support and carried the bill for all my exam attempts etc. I would also
> like to send a special Thank you to all at Netlogic Consulting, They have
> guided me along the whole path through CCNA, NP and IE. Their courses
were
> excellent and their after sales support proved invaluable to me in getting
> prepared for the LAB. I would seriously recommend any of you guys in the
> UK who are looking for a CCIE prep course to consider them,
> www.netlogicconsulting.com, their lab scenarios were key to me
understanding
> and learning all the different technologies.
>
> This list has also provided a great resource to find out info for
> me.......Although I have been a relatively passive member I have learnt a
> great deal from the discussions and also been greatly amused by some of
the
> OT discussions. Keep up the hard work everyone and don't give
> up.........everyone can get there in the end.
>
> This email is only for the use of its intended recipient. Its contents are
> confidential and may be privileged. Fujitsu Services does not guarantee
that
> this email has not been intercepted and amended or that it is virus-free.
>
> Munib Ali Khan
> <<...OLE_Obj...>>
> Network Services
> Cavendish Road, Stevenage, Hertfordshire, SG1 2DY
> Tel: +44 (0) 870 234 8171 Internal: 7301 5515
> Mob: +44 (0) 7867 823214
> Fax: +44 (0) 870 234 9199 Internal: 7301 6531
> E-mail: Munib.Khan@services.fujitsu.com
> Web: services.fujitsu.com
>
> Fujitsu Services Limited, Registered In England no 96056, Registered
Office
> 26, Finsbury Square, London, EC2A 1SL
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Thu Jun 13 2002 - 10:58:23 GMT-3