From: Brad Ellis (bellis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Date: Thu Oct 11 2001 - 12:05:11 GMT-3
Michael,
Did I read you right? They are giving partial credit now?
" - On the lab scenario that is given to the candidate, a topic that is
worth
4 points may actually be viewed by the proctor as a task worth 2 points and
two smaller task worth 1 point each to total the 4 point value given.
Supposedly this was the case with the two-day format also."
That was NOT how they did it on the two-day format. Either you got
everything, or you didn't. Plain and simple.
thanks,
-Brad Ellis
CCIE#5796
Network Learning Inc
bellis@optsys.net
used Cisco: www.optsys.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Brady" <cisco@sc.rr.com>
To: "'Marc Russell'" <mrussell@ccbootcamp.com>
Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 10:17 AM
Subject: RE: 1-day lab format
> Marc,
>
> The webcast should be available in a few days from ccprep.com
> (http://www.ccprep.com/resources/ccwebcast/cc-webcast.htm.htm). Lou Rossi
> was the host, and he said it would take a few days before it would be
> available. It should be free of charge since the webcast they have held
> before are. I have listed some of the main points that I can remember
> below...
>
> - There will not be an implicit troubleshooting section. Their view is
that
> troubleshooting will be part of the initial configuration since everyone
> makes typos, or omits key commands.
> - The rack will be preconfigured with IP addresses (both physical and
> logical interfaces), passwords, host names, etc.
> - Currently there will not be any bugs in the initial configs.
> - On the lab scenario that is given to the candidate, a topic that is
worth
> 4 points may actually be viewed by the proctor as a task worth 2 points
and
> two smaller task worth 1 point each to total the 4 point value given.
> Supposedly this was the case with the two-day format also.
> - The candidate will receive the results of their lab by the end of the
next
> business day, but it is possible to receive the results the same day of
the
> lab depending on when the proctor marks the lab.
> - The cost to have a lab attempt re-read is $250. The original proctor
will
> not perform the re-read. If the results go from fail to pass, then the
fee
> is refunded.
> - Since part of the lab is preconfigured, and the implicit troubleshooting
> section has been removed, some task will carry a heavier weight to makeup
> the difference.
> - The new written exam for the one-day format may contain more than 100
> questions to accommodate the topics that were removed from the lab (i.e.
> subnetting, cabling, etc).
> - VPNs will not be a big part of the R&S lab, but will be on the C&S and
> security labs.
>
> That is about all I can think of. I hope this helps until you can hear
the
> webcast for your self.
>
> Thanks,
> Michael Brady
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
> Marc Russell
> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 9:42 AM
> To: 'Todd Veillette '
> Cc: 'ccielab@groupstudy.com'
> Subject: RE: 1-day lab format
>
>
> I guess some people will just agree to disagree on this issue. I believe
> Todd here has answered my questions, at least close enough for my task at
> hand. Thanks.
>
> Does anyone know if it is possible to listen to or get notes from this
> "cciewebcast" that has taken place. I assume this is a Cisco sponsered
event
> so that NDA shouldn't be an issue.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Todd Veillette
> To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Sent: 10/11/01 7:44 AM
> Subject: Fw: 1-day lab format
>
> > Hi Jay, all,
> >
> > The cciewebcast last night addressed the issues below, so I am
> positive
> > what they said doesn't violate the NDA. In a nutshell they said IP,
> > and interface configs would be set to a level the specific lab
> dictates,
> > a diagram is not required, and most impotently, the level to which
> > the addressing is done will NOT have any deliberately put in errors.
> >
> > >* We just want to know as to what extent the network is
> pre-configured.
> > >* Is it just basic IP addressing and activated interfaces or more
> complex
> > >* issues like ISDN setup, frame-relay setup, or basic routing
> protocols,
> > >* etc.
> >
> > -Todd
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jay Hennigan" <jay@west.net>
> > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 2:40 AM
> > Subject: RE: 1-day lab format
> >
> >
> > > On Thu, 11 Oct 2001, Marc Russell wrote:
> > >
> > > > So, do you really feel that this type of knowledge really gives
> someone
> > an
> > > > unfair advantage? I think this pushes the NDA to an extreme that
> wasn't
> > > > intended.
> > >
> > > Yes, I feel that the type of information that you were requesting in
> > > your original post would give someone an unfair advantage. And,
> yes,
> > > I feel that revealing it would definitely be an NDA violation.
> > >
> > > > I suppose next it will be considered NDA to discuss what you ate
> for
> > lunch
> > > > during your exam.
> > >
> > > TTBOMK, lunch is not served in the exam room. At San Jose, you were
> given
> > > a voucher for day one lunch and escorted to the cafeteria where
> there
> was
> > a
> > > varied menu. On day two you were on your own for lunch. I would
> presume
> > > that this may vary by location, but that the candidates taking the
> one-day
> > > exam would likely be escorted to lunch. Frantic phone calls to TAC
> from
> > > the payphones in the Cisco cafeteria are not considered good form.
> > >
> > > > My interpretation of technical content would be something more
> like
> this
> > > > "Hey did you hear that OSPF virtual-links now count for 90% of
> your
> > score,
> > > > better know that concept cold." If a CCIE candidate is going to
> actually
> > > > gain an advantage by knowing the extent of preconfiguration of
> basic
> IP,
> > > > interfaces, etc. he/she is going to fail miserably and it is a
> > non-issue.
> > > > How would this information help them pass the test? I guess I just
> don't
> > get
> > > > it. Help me see the light.
> > >
> > > Look at what you asked for:
> > >
> > > * We just want to know as to what extent the network is
> pre-configured.
> > > * Is it just basic IP addressing and activated interfaces or more
> complex
> > > * issues like ISDN setup, frame-relay setup, or basic routing
> protocols,
> > > * etc.
> > >
> > > Look at bullet point three of the confidentiality agreement found at
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/625/ccie/ccie_program/confidentiality_a
> grmt
> > .pdf
> > >
> > > * That You may not disclose the Exam questions or answers or discuss
> any
> > of
> > > the content of the Exam Materials with any person, without prior
> written
> > > approval of Cisco;
> > >
> > > IMHO, the extent to which the network is preconfigured and the
> specifics
> > > you asked about with regard to IP addressing, interfaces, ISDN and
> frame-
> > > relay, and basic routing protocols are indeed very clearly "the
> content
> of
> > > the Exam materials" as defined by the NDA.
> > >
> > > > I have customers and competitors all going crazy over this 1-day
> format
> > > > deal. It doesn't make any difference, but it is a marketing issue
> I
> need
> > to
> > > > address. The skills, preparation, and knowledge required will be
> the
> > same
> > > > for either test format. If I can actually get a customer on the
> phone
> > and
> > > > explain it to them they usually understand that it doesn't matter.
> > >
> > > The CCIE program is not, to the best of my knowledge, obligated in
> any
> > > way to accommodate the customers or competitors of those in the
> business
> > > of providing exam preparation services. In some ways the
> relationship
> > > is adversarial.
> > >
> > > > It is just a customer perception problem I need to deal with.
> However,
> > going
> > > > through all of our older labs and updating them will be a lot of
> work
> > and I
> > > > would prefer to do it only once.
> > >
> > > I would approach it within the guidelines of what is on the Cisco
> website,
> > > and not ask for people to risk violating NDA. Perhaps the newer
> CCIE
> > > Assessor may be of value.
> > >
> > > Let me provide an observation, based on having taken the lab more
> than
> > > once and having participated in this forum for a long time. There
> are
> > > some technologies and scenarios I have seen discussed here
> frequently,
> > > often in excruciating detail, that I have never seen in the lab.
> There
> > > were things I saw in the lab that haven't been touched upon here at
> all.
> > >
> > > For me or anyone to provide information such as "You're wasting your
> > > time studying 'X'", or "You ought to know how to do 'Y'", based on
> the
> > > experiences of having seen the lab would clearly be wrong, do you
> not
> > > agree?
> > >
> > > Yet what you're asking here is for information as to how the lab is
> > > preconfigured. That is fundamentally part of the exam materials and
> > > would give candidates inside knowledge of what not to study because
> it
> > > is provided preconfigured.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Administration - jay@west.net
> > > NetLojix Communications, Inc. - http://www.netlojix.com/
> > > WestNet: Connecting you to the planet. 805 884-6323
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