From: Michael Brady (cisco@xxxxxxxxx)
Date: Thu Oct 11 2001 - 12:19:35 GMT-3
They said that the candidate would not know that the topic was broken down
into smaller topics, but when the proctor grades the lab, it will be viewed
as two or more subtopics that equal the total amount of points for that
item. I'm not sure which one of the Cisco guys said this, but he also said
that it was that way with the two-day format.
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
Brad Ellis
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 11:05 AM
To: Michael Brady; 'Marc Russell'
Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: 1-day lab format
Michael,
Did I read you right? They are giving partial credit now?
" - On the lab scenario that is given to the candidate, a topic that is
worth
4 points may actually be viewed by the proctor as a task worth 2 points and
two smaller task worth 1 point each to total the 4 point value given.
Supposedly this was the case with the two-day format also."
That was NOT how they did it on the two-day format. Either you got
everything, or you didn't. Plain and simple.
thanks,
-Brad Ellis
CCIE#5796
Network Learning Inc
bellis@optsys.net
used Cisco: www.optsys.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Brady" <cisco@sc.rr.com>
To: "'Marc Russell'" <mrussell@ccbootcamp.com>
Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 10:17 AM
Subject: RE: 1-day lab format
> Marc,
>
> The webcast should be available in a few days from ccprep.com
> (http://www.ccprep.com/resources/ccwebcast/cc-webcast.htm.htm). Lou Rossi
> was the host, and he said it would take a few days before it would be
> available. It should be free of charge since the webcast they have held
> before are. I have listed some of the main points that I can remember
> below...
>
> - There will not be an implicit troubleshooting section. Their view is
that
> troubleshooting will be part of the initial configuration since everyone
> makes typos, or omits key commands.
> - The rack will be preconfigured with IP addresses (both physical and
> logical interfaces), passwords, host names, etc.
> - Currently there will not be any bugs in the initial configs.
> - On the lab scenario that is given to the candidate, a topic that is
worth
> 4 points may actually be viewed by the proctor as a task worth 2 points
and
> two smaller task worth 1 point each to total the 4 point value given.
> Supposedly this was the case with the two-day format also.
> - The candidate will receive the results of their lab by the end of the
next
> business day, but it is possible to receive the results the same day of
the
> lab depending on when the proctor marks the lab.
> - The cost to have a lab attempt re-read is $250. The original proctor
will
> not perform the re-read. If the results go from fail to pass, then the
fee
> is refunded.
> - Since part of the lab is preconfigured, and the implicit troubleshooting
> section has been removed, some task will carry a heavier weight to makeup
> the difference.
> - The new written exam for the one-day format may contain more than 100
> questions to accommodate the topics that were removed from the lab (i.e.
> subnetting, cabling, etc).
> - VPNs will not be a big part of the R&S lab, but will be on the C&S and
> security labs.
>
> That is about all I can think of. I hope this helps until you can hear
the
> webcast for your self.
>
> Thanks,
> Michael Brady
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
> Marc Russell
> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 9:42 AM
> To: 'Todd Veillette '
> Cc: 'ccielab@groupstudy.com'
> Subject: RE: 1-day lab format
>
>
> I guess some people will just agree to disagree on this issue. I believe
> Todd here has answered my questions, at least close enough for my task at
> hand. Thanks.
>
> Does anyone know if it is possible to listen to or get notes from this
> "cciewebcast" that has taken place. I assume this is a Cisco sponsered
event
> so that NDA shouldn't be an issue.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Todd Veillette
> To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Sent: 10/11/01 7:44 AM
> Subject: Fw: 1-day lab format
>
> > Hi Jay, all,
> >
> > The cciewebcast last night addressed the issues below, so I am
> positive
> > what they said doesn't violate the NDA. In a nutshell they said IP,
> > and interface configs would be set to a level the specific lab
> dictates,
> > a diagram is not required, and most impotently, the level to which
> > the addressing is done will NOT have any deliberately put in errors.
> >
> > >* We just want to know as to what extent the network is
> pre-configured.
> > >* Is it just basic IP addressing and activated interfaces or more
> complex
> > >* issues like ISDN setup, frame-relay setup, or basic routing
> protocols,
> > >* etc.
> >
> > -Todd
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jay Hennigan" <jay@west.net>
> > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 2:40 AM
> > Subject: RE: 1-day lab format
> >
> >
> > > On Thu, 11 Oct 2001, Marc Russell wrote:
> > >
> > > > So, do you really feel that this type of knowledge really gives
> someone
> > an
> > > > unfair advantage? I think this pushes the NDA to an extreme that
> wasn't
> > > > intended.
> > >
> > > Yes, I feel that the type of information that you were requesting in
> > > your original post would give someone an unfair advantage. And,
> yes,
> > > I feel that revealing it would definitely be an NDA violation.
> > >
> > > > I suppose next it will be considered NDA to discuss what you ate
> for
> > lunch
> > > > during your exam.
> > >
> > > TTBOMK, lunch is not served in the exam room. At San Jose, you were
> given
> > > a voucher for day one lunch and escorted to the cafeteria where
> there
> was
> > a
> > > varied menu. On day two you were on your own for lunch. I would
> presume
> > > that this may vary by location, but that the candidates taking the
> one-day
> > > exam would likely be escorted to lunch. Frantic phone calls to TAC
> from
> > > the payphones in the Cisco cafeteria are not considered good form.
> > >
> > > > My interpretation of technical content would be something more
> like
> this
> > > > "Hey did you hear that OSPF virtual-links now count for 90% of
> your
> > score,
> > > > better know that concept cold." If a CCIE candidate is going to
> actually
> > > > gain an advantage by knowing the extent of preconfiguration of
> basic
> IP,
> > > > interfaces, etc. he/she is going to fail miserably and it is a
> > non-issue.
> > > > How would this information help them pass the test? I guess I just
> don't
> > get
> > > > it. Help me see the light.
> > >
> > > Look at what you asked for:
> > >
> > > * We just want to know as to what extent the network is
> pre-configured.
> > > * Is it just basic IP addressing and activated interfaces or more
> complex
> > > * issues like ISDN setup, frame-relay setup, or basic routing
> protocols,
> > > * etc.
> > >
> > > Look at bullet point three of the confidentiality agreement found at
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/625/ccie/ccie_program/confidentiality_a
> grmt
> > .pdf
> > >
> > > * That You may not disclose the Exam questions or answers or discuss
> any
> > of
> > > the content of the Exam Materials with any person, without prior
> written
> > > approval of Cisco;
> > >
> > > IMHO, the extent to which the network is preconfigured and the
> specifics
> > > you asked about with regard to IP addressing, interfaces, ISDN and
> frame-
> > > relay, and basic routing protocols are indeed very clearly "the
> content
> of
> > > the Exam materials" as defined by the NDA.
> > >
> > > > I have customers and competitors all going crazy over this 1-day
> format
> > > > deal. It doesn't make any difference, but it is a marketing issue
> I
> need
> > to
> > > > address. The skills, preparation, and knowledge required will be
> the
> > same
> > > > for either test format. If I can actually get a customer on the
> phone
> > and
> > > > explain it to them they usually understand that it doesn't matter.
> > >
> > > The CCIE program is not, to the best of my knowledge, obligated in
> any
> > > way to accommodate the customers or competitors of those in the
> business
> > > of providing exam preparation services. In some ways the
> relationship
> > > is adversarial.
> > >
> > > > It is just a customer perception problem I need to deal with.
> However,
> > going
> > > > through all of our older labs and updating them will be a lot of
> work
> > and I
> > > > would prefer to do it only once.
> > >
> > > I would approach it within the guidelines of what is on the Cisco
> website,
> > > and not ask for people to risk violating NDA. Perhaps the newer
> CCIE
> > > Assessor may be of value.
> > >
> > > Let me provide an observation, based on having taken the lab more
> than
> > > once and having participated in this forum for a long time. There
> are
> > > some technologies and scenarios I have seen discussed here
> frequently,
> > > often in excruciating detail, that I have never seen in the lab.
> There
> > > were things I saw in the lab that haven't been touched upon here at
> all.
> > >
> > > For me or anyone to provide information such as "You're wasting your
> > > time studying 'X'", or "You ought to know how to do 'Y'", based on
> the
> > > experiences of having seen the lab would clearly be wrong, do you
> not
> > > agree?
> > >
> > > Yet what you're asking here is for information as to how the lab is
> > > preconfigured. That is fundamentally part of the exam materials and
> > > would give candidates inside knowledge of what not to study because
> it
> > > is provided preconfigured.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Administration - jay@west.net
> > > NetLojix Communications, Inc. - http://www.netlojix.com/
> > > WestNet: Connecting you to the planet. 805 884-6323
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