From: Jeff Kesemeyer (jkesemey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Date: Thu Oct 11 2001 - 11:34:23 GMT-3
For those of you who missed the web cast last night I put together a few
notes about it.
There is no longer the need to draw a diagram. They couldn't tell if you
were an expert from the drawing :)
The reconfiguration will include:
ip addressed and hostnames, without any errors introduced
You will no longer have to patch the rack.
In the past the 2-3 points objectives will now be 3-4 points
Is partial credit is possible?
A four point question may be viewed by the proctor as two 2-point
questions.
NDA violations are strictly being enforced !!!
This is probably why we have not heard from anyone. You older timers on here
may remember the discussion when one person mentioned that he thought the
two-day test was easy. Can you imagine what would happen if anyone mentioned
that the new test was easy or even difficult? Everyone will take any email
to the extreme. Too easy the program is in trouble, too hard and everyone
shouts unfair? This would be lose/lose email, and people in the past never
mentioned when they fail, I know I didn't.
The amount of tasks and the time allowed seemed to be key problems with the
new one day test. The web cast mentioned that you will not have time to look
things up on the CD or figure anything out.
This one puzzles me a bit since if you have trouble, you need time to d
o a
little troubleshooting, and they expect that since troubleshooting has been
removed. "No more explicit troubleshooting" Now they removed the time for
troubleshooting as well? You better know your stuff and be perfect at
implementing it or be able to catch your mistakes quickly.
It also sounds like from this that they removed the CD burner questions, the
ones that they expected no one to know. You had to use the CD to find the
answer to get those points.
The web cast mentioned that the current pass rate is slightly less than past
examines. This is understandable since any new format is a change and most
people who have been passing are second and third timers, now everyone is a
first timers again.
The CCIE totals were also mentioned. Even though 1000 people were passing in
the year, just because twice are now taking the test, they don't expect the
number to increase twofold. I think this means harder test = safer CCIE
program.
If you think you passed and you want a reread you can get one for $250. This
is reimbursable if your test status goes from fail to pass. They will save
your configurations to reload. There is no way they would sent those to you,
it would be like giving you your diagram after the two-day test. They are
very active to stop any brain dump possibilities and are working with the
FBI at the moment on a case with NDA violations.
Will the 5000's be replaced with 6500's? Someday, the cost is not feasible
now. This will be the next major change however.
Test Results
You will get your test results by the end of the next business day.
The results will supply you with better information for you to prepare for
you next attempt.
If you pass you will probably get your results earlier since this change was
introduced so you can get more feedback from your test than what you use to
get.
I think this web cast answered most of the questions on the one-day, an
d
even if it is harder I don't think anyone will be complaining about. Just
safeguards the program for those individuals who have earned the right to be
called a CCIE.
Jeff Kesemeyer
CCNP, CCDP, MCSE, CNE
www.bradshawlabs.com
"Your CCIE Rack Rental Source"
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
Marc Russell
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 9:42 AM
To: 'Todd Veillette '
Cc: 'ccielab@groupstudy.com'
Subject: RE: 1-day lab format
I guess some people will just agree to disagree on this issue. I believe
Todd here has answered my questions, at least close enough for my task at
hand. Thanks.
Does anyone know if it is possible to listen to or get notes from this
"cciewebcast" that has taken place. I assume this is a Cisco sponsered event
so that NDA shouldn't be an issue.
-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Veillette
To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Sent: 10/11/01 7:44 AM
Subject: Fw: 1-day lab format
> Hi Jay, all,
>
> The cciewebcast last night addressed the issues below, so I am
positive
> what they said doesn't violate the NDA. In a nutshell they said IP,
> and interface configs would be set to a level the specific lab
dictates,
> a diagram is not required, and most impotently, the level to which
> the addressing is done will NOT have any deliberately put in errors.
>
> >* We just want to know as to what extent the network is
pre-configured.
> >* Is it just basic IP addressing and activated interfaces or more
complex
> >* issues like ISDN setup, frame-relay setup, or basic routing
protocols,
> >* etc.
>
> -Todd
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jay Hennigan" <jay@west.net>
> To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 2:40 AM
> Subject: RE: 1-day lab format
>
>
> > On Thu, 11 Oct 2001, Marc Russell wrote:
> >
> > > So, do you really feel that this type of knowledge really gives
someone
> an
> > > unfair advantage? I think this pushes the NDA to an extreme that
wasn't
> > > intended.
> >
> > Yes, I feel that the type of information that you were requesting in
> > your original post would give someone an unfair advantage. And,
yes,
> > I feel that revealing it would definitely be an NDA violation.
> >
> > > I suppose next it will be considered NDA to discuss what you ate
for
> lunch
> > > during your exam.
> >
> > TTBOMK, lunch is not served in the exam room. At San Jose, you were
given
> > a voucher for day one lunch and escorted to the cafeteria where
there
was
> a
> > varied menu. On day two you were on your own for lunch. I would
presume
> > that this may vary by location, but that the candidates taking the
one-day
> > exam would likely be escorted to lunch. Frantic phone calls to TAC
from
> > the payphones in the Cisco cafeteria are not considered good form.
> >
> > > My interpretation of technical content would be something more
like
this
> > > "Hey did you hear that OSPF virtual-links now count for 90% of
your
> score,
> > > better know that concept cold." If a CCIE candidate is going to
actually
> > > gain an advantage by knowing the extent of preconfiguration of
basic
IP,
> > > interfaces, etc. he/she is going to fail miserably and it is a
> non-issue.
> > > How would this information help them pass the test? I guess I just
don't
> get
> > > it. Help me see the light.
> >
> > Look at what you asked for:
> >
> > * We just want to know as to what extent the network is
pre-configured.
> > * Is it just basic IP addressing and activated interfaces or more
complex
> > * issues like ISDN setup, frame-relay setup, or basic routing
protocols,
> > * etc.
> >
> > Look at bullet point three of the confidentiality agreement found at
> >
> >
>
http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/625/ccie/ccie_program/confidentiality_a
grmt
> .pdf
> >
> > * That You may not disclose the Exam questions or answers or discuss
any
> of
> > the content of the Exam Materials with any person, without prior
written
> > approval of Cisco;
> >
> > IMHO, the extent to which the network is preconfigured and the
specifics
> > you asked about with regard to IP addressing, interfaces, ISDN and
frame-
> > relay, and basic routing protocols are indeed very clearly "the
content
of
> > the Exam materials" as defined by the NDA.
> >
> > > I have customers and competitors all going crazy over this 1-day
format
> > > deal. It doesn't make any difference, but it is a marketing issue
I
need
> to
> > > address. The skills, preparation, and knowledge required will be
the
> same
> > > for either test format. If I can actually get a customer on the
phone
> and
> > > explain it to them they usually understand that it doesn't matter.
> >
> > The CCIE program is not, to the best of my knowledge, obligated in
any
> > way to accommodate the customers or competitors of those in the
business
> > of providing exam preparation services. In some ways the
relationship
> > is adversarial.
> >
> > > It is just a customer perception problem I need to deal with.
However,
> going
> > > through all of our older labs and updating them will be a lot of
work
> and I
> > > would prefer to do it only once.
> >
> > I would approach it within the guidelines of what is on the Cisco
website,
> > and not ask for people to risk violating NDA. Perhaps the newer
CCIE
> > Assessor may be of value.
> >
> > Let me provide an observation, based on having taken the lab more
than
> > once and having participated in this forum for a long time. There
are
> > some technologies and scenarios I have seen discussed here
frequently,
> > often in excruciating detail, that I have never seen in the lab.
There
> > were things I saw in the lab that haven't been touched upon here at
all.
> >
> > For me or anyone to provide information such as "You're wasting your
> > time studying 'X'", or "You ought to know how to do 'Y'", based on
the
> > experiences of having seen the lab would clearly be wrong, do you
not
> > agree?
> >
> > Yet what you're asking here is for information as to how the lab is
> > preconfigured. That is fundamentally part of the exam materials and
> > would give candidates inside knowledge of what not to study because
it
> > is provided preconfigured.
> >
> > --
> > Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Administration - jay@west.net
> > NetLojix Communications, Inc. - http://www.netlojix.com/
> > WestNet: Connecting you to the planet. 805 884-6323
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