From: Brian Dennis (brian@xxxxxx)
Date: Tue Oct 02 2001 - 13:14:39 GMT-3
Jim,
What are you talking about? I don't think anyone used the phrase "complete auto
-grade" but I personally think that using a script (software) to grade most of
the exam is a very useful tool.
Do you really think that software couldn't detect if you used a static route? A
nyways here is part of an e-mail from a proctor at Cisco.
******************
The rumors you have heard refer to a tool which we (CCIE Program) have
been developing for about 2 years. It's called E-Proctor. This tool doesn't
replace the proctor but is simply a grading tool that assists in grading
certain exams that it has been configured to handle. This tool is hopefully
going to allow us to handle the grading of more candidates per proctor and
thus increase our capacity without the need to hire more proctors.
******************
Also where did you come up with this?
"I think any proctor would have your head at the suggestion the labs are auto g
raded and they just hang around all day to answer questions."
Brian Dennis, CCIE #2210 (R&S)(ISP/Dial) CCSI #98640
5G Networks, Inc.
brian@5g.net
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Brown [mailto:Jim.Brown@CaseLogic.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 8:52 AM
> To: 'Brian Dennis'; Jim Brown; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: New lab format starting tomorrow!
>
>
> As far as I understood, the auto grading of the test only does
> some sort of
> a recon ping scan. Can I actually ping this interface? If not, the
> requirement is not working and no further inspection is
> necessary, if I can
> ping then I should inspect and make sure the features were implemented in
> the correct fashion. ALL BASED ON CONJECTURE.
>
> Heck, If it is auto graded as you suggest, static routes here I
> come. I know
> for a fact the proctors examine the configs to look for certain items. I
> have watched them grade configurations.
>
> A partial auto grade weeds out unnecessary review of non-working configs.
>
> I think any proctor would have your head at the suggestion the
> labs are auto
> graded and they just hang around all day to answer questions.
>
> For complete auto grading the exams would have to be so specific about how
> to implement a solution they would almost need to tell you how to
> implement
> it.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Dennis [mailto:brian@5g.net]
> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 6:25 PM
> To: Jim Brown; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: New lab format starting tomorrow!
>
>
> Jim,
> The lab is already being graded by software. Ask a proctor for yourself.
> Cisco's in-house software is called eProctor. There is still some human
> review of the results but the vast majority of the labs are graded by
> software.
>
> I did a contract with Cisco in '98 as a Software Tools Automation Engineer
> where I developed scripts to automate testing of various IOS
> features. I can
> assure you that it's not impossible to automate the grading. For example,
> why would I need to know what you named your route-map? All I
> have to do is
> find the route-map that is applied to the redistribution command or
> interface to determine what name you used. As far as prefix-list or
> access-list it would be easy to put a condition in to check for
> either one.
>
> Brian Dennis, CCIE #2210 (R&S)(ISP/Dial) CCSI #98640
> 5G Networks, Inc.
> brian@5g.net
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
> > Jim Brown
> > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 4:36 PM
> > To: 'Libone Mhalanga'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: New lab format starting tomorrow!
> >
> >
> > I cannot see how the exam could ever be auto-graded.
> >
> > How could they know what you would name your route-maps or
> > whether you would
> > use prefix/extended access-lists?
> >
> > The permutations are limitless and your work could only be verified via
> > trained eyes.
> >
> > For auto-grading to even be considered, test requirements would need to
> > specify names for route-maps, prefix-lists, access-lists, and
> the like. At
> > that point a monkey could configure the scenarios if told which
> > commands and
> > technologies to use.
> >
> > Someone made a funny comment regarding the extremely specific design
> > requirements necessary for auto-grading...... We could all become CCCAPE
> > (Cisco Certified Cut And Paste Experts).
> >
> > I would like to purchase one of those San Jose lobby chairs after I
> > successfully complete the lab, just to burn it (you might be able
> > to relate
> > if you have taken the lab in San Jose). I'm starting to hate those damn
> > chairs.
> >
> > Have some sympathy for the proctors. They will now have to deal
> with twice
> > as many exams to grade, although no arguing, hostility, or
> > removal of upset
> > candidates during the debriefing.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Libone Mhalanga [mailto:libone@digisle.net]
> > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 3:16 PM
> > To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: New lab format starting tomorrow!
> >
> >
> > Well in my opinion anything that removes human intervention in deciding
> > the outcome of this exam is most welcome !!
> > Proctors are NOT above human failings and prejudices. I certainly found
> > that in Brussels two weeks ago !!
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bruce Williams
> > Sent: Mon 10/1/2001 1:17 PM
> > To: John Kaberna; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Cc:
> > Subject: Re: New lab format starting tomorrow!
> >
> >
> >
> > I hope that it does not come to that. I have heard people
> > express their
> > concerns about the CCIE losing it's value and I always thought
> > these
> > concerns were invalid, but I believe that this is something that
> > will
> > devalue the CCIE. If the CCIE goes to Sylvan testing, it will be
> > easier for
> > people to cheat and you will see a dramatic increase in the pass
> > rate.
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Kaberna" <jkaberna@netcginc.com>
> > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 3:56 PM
> > Subject: Re: New lab format starting tomorrow!
> >
> >
> > > Computer based marking is not next. However, Cisco already
> > has plans in
> > the
> > > work to extend testing to other remote Cisco sites and have
> > the proctor be
> > > available over a webcam. The next step is Sylvan testing. I
> > got this
> > info
> > > first hand from a proctor. It's not a rumor. Whether it
> > happens or not I
> > > think is still in discussion.
> > >
> > > John Kaberna
> > > CCIE #7146
> > > NETCG Inc.
> > > Cisco Premier Partner
> > > www.netcginc.com
> > > (415) 750-3800
> > >
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Thu Jun 20 2002 - 22:33:11 GMT-3