From: Chris H (chrish@xxxxxxxx)
Date: Mon Aug 06 2001 - 18:21:37 GMT-3
I totally agree with Brian. I had very similiar situation as well. I got IOS
IP ONLY software in one of my routers. Well, you know already what could
happen. Features such as IPX, NAT... do not work any more. This was on my
day one. I asked the proctor and his answer was " Really ?" I took it that
was part of my day two troubleshooting and fixed it then moved on. Everyone
was happy in the end.
Chris Hsu
CCIE 7442
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
brian apley
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:01 AM
To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: CCIE Experience from the depths of below...
Ken- While I feel for you, you would have been better served to put your
head down and work through the issues, as opposed to escalating the
situation all the way to the top. First, I'm sure the proctor didn't
appreciate that (even if it was his mistake, it's probably not good to get
on his bad side). Second, how many times in the real world do you run into
situations that look bleak, wrong IOS, etc. If he throws you a flash card
and say, Fix it, treat it like you (hopefully) would in the real world and
fix it. If he tells you to iron the carpet, iron the carpet!!!
I give this point of view with some perspective. I had many of the same
issues hit me that hit you, without getting into your level of detail. In
fact, I had them at the very same lab, with the same proctor. I made sure he
was aware of the issues, but I didn't ask for his help to resolve them, and
I certainly didn't ask to speak with his boss. I did what I would do on an
install- I worked through them. And in the end, I had everything fixed- the
intentional as well as the unintentional. And, bonus, I have a nice little
war story to share in the CCIE cigar bar :-)
I'm sorry if this is harsh at all, I do have empathy for your plight. But,
they call it troubleshooting for a reason...
Brian Apley
CCIE #7599
Ken Snyder <phizzog@home.com> wrote: Hi All,
I feel entitled to let everyone know what happened in my 4 days of
misery last week in Halifax. I started Day 1 last Tuesday. It was a fair
test with many great tricks but I was very confident moving into Day2.
Well I received my Day 2 lab and to my delight, I had covered many of
the topics in great detail. So I started flying through Day 2. Well
about an hour into my test, the proctor came up and took the lab from my
desk, he gave me another lab and told me to start over. I guess the
other fellow who made it to day 2 received the lab that was designed for
my rack and I had his lab. The proctor mistakenly gave us the wrong
exams. The other guy couldn't understand why his ATM wouldn't come up
but my lab fit on my topology so I didn't notice it. So I get the new
lab and begin to start over. Now many of the things I had from the
previous lab over lapped and I spent an hour fixing things. Than I got
to a section that required a configuration that I did have an option for
on my router so after researching it in the documentation, I found that
I had in fact the wrong IOS on my router. I had to hunt down the
proctor. He knew right away that it was the wrong IOS so he gave me a
Flash card and told me to fix it! I was fit to be tied at that point. So
all in all I pled my case and the proctor met talked with this
supervisor Lornne Braddock (who is very pleasant to deal with in these
situations). They gave me three options: take the test again at a later
date, take the test again the next day, or take the 1 day exam the next
day. The problem I faced is that they would only waive the test fee. The
next trip would be out of my own pocket so I had to take a chance and
start over the next day. I was beyond exhausted and tired on the morning
of Day 3. I started Day 1 (I mean 3) and it was a completely new lab
with similar topics but new tricks (it was fair). I finished early as
usual and checked all my config's. I was very confident again moving
into Day 2 but very tired. I started Day 2. It was tough!! Many new
topics and tricks that I've never seen. I used my usual strategy: kick
out big point topics I'm familiar with, than gimmie points and then
research problems. Well I found a problem with one router that I just
couldn't figure out. I tried all different kinds of solutions. It was
close to my problem from my other day 2 that had the wrong IOS so I
started to think that I had the wrong code again. Well once I was
convinced it was a code issue, the proctor came in to send me to lunch.
I questioned him about it and he told me it was a common problem. I
immediate assumed he was referring that it was a common problem with the
wrong IOS like my previous day 2. So later when I missed by a few
points, I pled my case that I felt there was a problem with the code on
the router and it cost me an hour in the lab which prevented me from
double checking my work. He told me at that point it wasn't a problem
with the code. I was very upset so I went to leave but then I felt that
this was my only chance to know for sure if it was a problem or not with
the code so I requested the proctor to show me that it was not a code
issue. He refused! I was the only person in the testing center that day.
I was so angry at that point because now I could never know for sure if
it was a problem or not. So I pled my case with the management staff.
Every single person danced right around the issue until I spoke with
Lorrne again today. Well he addressed the issue but I couldn't believe
what his stance was on the policy of there lab. He straight out said
that as a test taker I am not entitled to question the proctors decision
even if I felt there was a problem with the equipment. My stance is that
I was not a typical client at that point because of the previous events
that lead up this. The proctor had already proved to me that he does
make BIG mistakes and did load the wrong IOS on my router two days
before so I felt that with this considered how could I trust his word
that there was nothing wrong. All he had to do is show me that the code
did work. I didn't expect him to show me how to configure it but rather
just check and make sure. An automated computer proctor could have just
told me no your are wrong go home. I was under the assumption that this
was one of the roles of the proctor is that they are available incase
there may be a technical problem with your equipment. They kept feeding
me the line of crap that this is the same equipment used for months but
every time I told them that I know for a fact based on experience that
week they do change the IOS on the routers and that would effect my
configuration and abilities to solve the issue. Cisco basically told me,
too bad so sad. I guess I should have known better than to trust that
proctor a second run through. Everyone has always told me to question
the proctor if I felt I was right but LISTEN to me you have NO RIGHTS as
a test taker in the CCIE program. You either kill your lab so they can't
screw you or pass on the merits of the proctor. It doesn't matter if
there is a problem with your equipment, they got your money and they
don't have to prove ANYTHING! I can't believe this notion when you
consider this is a lab exam with many variables that could go wrong so
when they tell me oh its worked 100's of times before and I just
witnessed two days earlier that problems do happen, how can I accept
that response? Now where does it state that I'm not allowed to question
a hardware problem. Look I understand that you can't start questioning
the proctors grading for everything, I know they have a review process
and the labs and answers are pretty well covered but if I feel there is
a problem with the equipment shouldn't I be given the opportunity to
have the proctor double check the equipment? Now it's hard for me to say
that the program doesn't care about its test takers because they did
resolve my first issue. I just can't get over that as a test taker in a
lab with variables the proctor is about as useful as computer. This also
brings to mind many new issues with the One Day lab. I can't imagine
taking the lab and leaving and than paying to have them check your
config's if you felt you were correct. How could you ever prove that
there was a problem with the rack you were on and not the config's? I
just see dark days for this program with these attitudes and stances. I
thought that part of the experience was to go over the lab with the
proctor so he can let you know your weak points and gives you the
opportunity to know if they took points away on something your know was
out of your control or you know that it was configured correctly but it
just might not have been in the same syntax they were looking for. So
now I'm faced with the dilemma of deciding whether to give it another
shot. I know I'm a marked man now so who knows what lab they will throw
at me. I'm ready for almost anything but based on the crap I've seen
from them last week who knows!! One thing is for sure, I will NEVER
recommend or support the notion of anyone of my peers taking the lab in
Halifax. I don't think anyone made it to troubleshooting all week. It's
tough up there so watch out you! At least San Jose there are several
proctors and they can come up with a collective resolution before they
ship you out the door with such a crazy experience. I know some may
disagree with me or agree but I feel better just letting everyone know
this "un-written" rule regarding not being able to question the proctor.
>From what I've heard from others, this seems to be dependent on the
proctor you have when you take your exam because I've heard others that
passed solely because they argued with proctor and received points that
were incorrectly taken away, when they were told they didn't make it to
day two. Now I have to decide whether to move on or pursue this crazy
program. I'll tell you one thing, I won't be taking the One Day Exam!!
I'd rather shift directions and move into the Juniper program which will
maintain the credibility with the two day exam. Anyway, I just hope this
email shed's some light on the unfair and "un-written" policies of the
CCIE program. Its been the best learning experience ever!
Regards,
-Ken
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