From: Chuck Larrieu (chuck@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Date: Mon May 28 2001 - 00:32:45 GMT-3
Do not confuse the end with the means.
Consider that there are alternative ways to accomplish what Cisco wants to
accomplish. Have a number of router pods, each dedicated to a particular
topic. Sit down at pod A. Configure redistribution between two protocols on
a network already built. You have fifteen minutes. Through? Go on to the
next one. You have 30 minutes to accomplish the assigned task. So on and so
forth. Kinda like a hands on version of the written tests we al know and
love. Each question self contained. Would this be easier or harder than the
present exam? Would it prove more or less?
You miss my point entirely. Far too many people think that all they have to
do is memorize enough configurations covering enough scenarios and they will
pass. And they are wrong.
If one concentrates on determining the core topics, and then mastering those
core topics, one has a far better chance of doing well.
Example. I memorize bootcamp lab 1-8. I have all the network diagrams down
cold in my head. I have the configs memorized so that I can get a pod
configured in good time. Hey, I'm great. Burt what happens if what I see on
the real lab is a bit different in topology? In specifics? In details? Then
what?
I'm reminded of someone I knew in college, a woman whose dream was to become
a concert pianist. She told me there are two ways to go. You can master
playing songs, and from there learn technique. Or you can master technique,
and then when you start playing songs, it is easier because you can
concentrate on the music, not the technique. Oh, the second way is a lot
less fun. But achieve a lot more in the long run.
Things like bootcamp and fatkid are akin to learning songs. But another way
to approach is to learn technique. Learn to redistribute between any two
protocols, and do it quickly. Learn to configure IS-IS, OSPF, or EIGRP over
an NMBA, with combinations of physical and subinterfaces, inverse arp and
mapping.
Configuring routers is indeed incidental, being just the means Cisco uses to
test concepts Cisco thinks important. They could do the same with essay
tests or whiteboard talks.
JMHO
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Ahlen [mailto:ahlen_t@ins.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 8:07 PM
To: 'Chuck Larrieu'; 'Pickell, Aaryn'; 'CCIE Lab'
Subject: RE: RE: cans and can-nots on the lab exam
"It is not about configuring routers"
Of course not Chuck. Maybe it's about configuring NT installs, or Network
cards, or maybe a host of other non-router related subjects. In no case is
it about "configuring routers". Please continue to expound on the CCIE exam.
I am sure that it will help you and others pass the exam.
Best Regards,
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
Chuck Larrieu
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 7:56 PM
To: Pickell, Aaryn; CCIE Lab
Subject: RE: RE: cans and can-nots on the lab exam
My own opinion, derived from conversations with many people:
The CCIE Lab is just a test. The whole idea is to test a candidate's mastery
of a number of topics, concepts, specifics.
It is not about good practice. It is not about configuring routers. It is
not about building a working network, even though these things may be part
of the end result.
Consider: Cisco wants you to be able to redistribute between any two
protocols. How do you test this, given the constraints of the lab?
Cisco wants you to understand routing protocol behaviour. How do you test
that? Do bizarre redistribution requirements and constraints provide just
such a means?
Cisco wants you to understand the implications of NMBA on Cisco routers. How
do you test that?
Cisco wants you to understand how OSPF works? How do you test that,
particularly in conjunction with NMBA?
Cisco wants you to understand how routing works. How do you test a
candidate's real understanding if the candidate can fake his way through by
using static routes?
Cisco wants you to understand a number of alternative solutions to a number
of problems. So they create scenarios which require knowledge of a number of
alternatives in order to complete correctly. Does this mean real world Does
this mean good practice? Usually not.
Anyway, that's how I'm approaching it as I begin my prep for try number 2.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Pickell, Aaryn
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 9:54 AM
To: 'W. Alan Robertson'; CCIE Lab
Subject: OT: RE: cans and can-nots on the lab exam
I understand why we've taken router usage to the n-th degree, but still
wonder about the irony of the situation. Basically, when we all get this
test passed, many of us will be going into network design / maintenance
jobs. So... does nobody find it silly that we're claiming that a test which
fundimentally asks "Can you take the most messed up and absurd network
design in the world and make it work anyway?" somehow represents any kind of
good design skill? I assume that most of us ALSO have good design skills,
but the CCIE doesn't test any of that. It tests our ability to successfully
impliment a bad design.
And they got rid of the CCIE Design.
Aaryn Pickell - CCNP ATM, CCDP, MCSE
Senior Engineer - Routing Protocols
Getronics Inc.
Direct: 713-394-1609
Email:aaryn.pickell@getronics.com
This e-mail message and any attachments are confidential and may be
privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify me
immediately by replying to this message and please destroy all copies of
this message and attachments. Thank you.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: W. Alan Robertson [mailto:warobertson@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 11:26 AM
> To: CCIE Lab
> Subject: Re: cans and can-nots on the lab exam
>
>
> Sorry Don,
>
> This kind of thing isn't documented anywhere that I know
> of... You're in for a
> surprise when you get to the lab, which is part of their
> plan. Understand that
> the lab scenarios, as I understand them, are not designed to
> reflect realistic
> networks or designs. The artificial limitations, such as 'no
> static routes,'
> are in place to test your ability to utilize the various
> "nerd knobs" inherent
> to IOS, and the various routing protocols that you happen to
> draw that make up
> your scenarios.
>
> This is the only way that you can demonstrate a deep
> understanding of the
> routing protocols, and their behaviors in a given
> environment. This is also the
> only way a candidate can demonstrate a certain degree of
> mastery in a network
> consisting of some 7 devices. Let's be honest; without a
> certain degree of
> absurdity, would a 7 devices network pose much of a challenge
> to most of us? I
> can configure 7 routers in about 30 minutes without the use
> of templates, and
> make them do whatever they need to in a normal environment,
> with staightforward
> requirements. That just doesn't make for a difficult test.
>
> One of the most difficult things I've had to tackle in my
> preparations is the
> tendancy not to do something in my practice lab that I
> wouldn't do in a real
> environment. Questions like "Who would use 4 routing
> protocols in a 6 router
> network" need to go out the window. You have to do the
> absurd... Think "sure,
> I can use a virtual link to make are 4 touch area 0, but
> wouldn't it be cooler
> to run OSPF across a tunnel interface through a non-OSPF
> routing domain?" (The
> OSPF cost on a tunnel interface is 11111, just in case you
> were wondering, and
> that was on a tunnel between two directly connected routers...)
>
> Out of curiousity, when is your date? Mine is July 19-20, in
> San Jose...
>
> Alan
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Dettmore" <don@donshouse.com>
> To: "CCIE Lab" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 2:07 PM
> Subject: cans and can-nots on the lab exam
>
> [snip]
> > Specifically, I keep seeing references to things like 'you
> are not allowed to
> > use static routes on the lab exam' or 'you cannot manually
> change the ospf
> > timers on the lab exam'. I've never seen any of these
> things stated on the
> > CCO website. Is this officially documented somewhere? Is
> there any way I
> > could get a definitive list of what you can and cannot do
> on the exam?
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