From: cai de (dcai@xxxxxxxxx)
Date: Sat Jan 20 2001 - 04:43:09 GMT-3
Thanks for your understanding.
As you said, I only want to show just CCIE is not enough, you still need
good experience.
Unfortunately, because my writting is not clear enough, I got some bad
reply. But I can understand those guys' feeling and I know I'm wrong.
Anyway, I want to say sorry for your guys. I will never do such kind of
thing again.
dc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wang, Zhan" <zhan.wang@intel.com>
To: "'Jason'" <jason1@v-labs.net>; "Wayne Hu" <wayneccie@yahoo.com>; "Shaun
Nicholson" <Shaun.Nicholson@KP.org>; "austin.alao" <austin.alao@bt.com>
Cc: "andrew.2.shore" <andrew.2.shore@bt.com>; "bhescock"
<bhescock@cisco.com>; "dcai" <dcai@cisco.com>; "johcamer"
<johcamer@cisco.com>; "ccielab" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 7:46 PM
Subject: RE: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
> Agree with you. thanks/Zhan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason [mailto:jason1@v-labs.net]
> Sent: 2001å¹´1æoe^20æ-¥ 0:02
> To: Wayne Hu; Shaun Nicholson; austin.alao
> Cc: andrew.2.shore; bhescock; dcai; johcamer; ccielab
> Subject: Re: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
>
>
> A certificate is a certificate.. Once you get it, it becomes worthless ..
I
> believe the journey is more important than the destination in any
> certifications.. Once you placed more importance on the destination (or
> getting the certifications) than you do on the process, the it starts to
> become worthless because there will always be people looking to make the
> certification easier to get...
>
> As I always tells my trainees, a Network is to support the Servers, the
> Servers to support the Applications and Workstations, and the Workstations
> and Applications is to support the users. If the users have a problem and
> you cannot fix it, they don't really give a damn where the problem lies or
> what certifications you hold.
>
> If you are a MCSE, then take some time to understand the applications and
> the network.. if you are a CCIE, then take some time to look at how
servers
> works and how applications works.. there is much more than CCIE.
>
> The truth is, certifications should be used as a benchmark for minimum
> standards, i.e. if you are certificated, it doesn't mean anything except
> that you meet the MINIMUM standard required to support the particular
> products.
>
> For those who thinks they have achieve something great, take some time to
be
> humble and stop insulting those who has chosen a different direction or
who
> dare to ask a different question or stated his thoughts..
>
> All I see was Cai DeZhong asking and stating his experiences and I see
> replies threatening his job.. Are you guys living in Russia ?
>
> For DeZhong, all I can say is that , it's not how many exams you can pass
> but what you can bring to a company that determines how much you earn....
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wayne Hu" <wayneccie@yahoo.com>
> To: "Shaun Nicholson" <Shaun.Nicholson@KP.org>; "austin.alao"
> <austin.alao@bt.com>
> Cc: "andrew.2.shore" <andrew.2.shore@bt.com>; "bhescock"
> <bhescock@cisco.com>; "dcai" <dcai@cisco.com>; "johcamer"
> <johcamer@cisco.com>; "ccielab" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 11:31 PM
> Subject: RE: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
>
>
> > Agree. It took me 22 days to pass 6 MCSE Exams without working
experience
> > two years ago. Now I haven't got my CCIE after 6 months preparing plus
> work
> > experience.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
> > Shaun Nicholson
> > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:50 AM
> > To: austin.alao
> > Cc: andrew.2.shore; bhescock; dcai; johcamer; ccielab
> > Subject: RE: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
> >
> >
> > How dare you compare the MCSE to the CCIE they are no way similar, I
haved
> > worked with MCSE's who could not wipe there own arse's with there paper
> > cetificates I myself started on the MCSE and stoped after 3 exams as I
> > realized how worthless it was plus I moved to the USA where I
concentrated
> > on working on Cisco equipment more, so that became my chosen path. But
> still
> > come on the MSCE is now a big joke throughout the industry you should
> start
> > to listen to your peers man. Microsoft did what they always do they
cashed
> > in and turned out armys of Microsoft solders to help sell there products
> and
> > it worked. Hell Cisco are doing a similar thing with the CCDA,CCDP, CCNA
> and
> > CCNP tracks. I know I've done them too.
> >
> > I know not all MCSE or any other certs for that matter are paper and I'm
> not
> > implying you are, how could I I dont even know you. But I can only speak
> > from experiances and there are more paper MCSE who do not know what they
> are
> > doing out there because they did bootcamps or what ever to get there
> screen
> > based non handson certificates. You have to agree with that surerly the
> rest
> > of the industry does.
> >
> > The MCSE is a basic do 6 exams on a computer screen and if you do the
> > adaptive exams it can take you less than 20 minutes an exam I know I
speak
> > from experiance. I dont even use the letters I was asigned from
Microsoft
> > (MCP) anymore it took me 20 minutes to get a 55% pass. It has taken me 9
> > months of 40 hours a week in the lab and 3 goes to get my lab ok so the
> > written is not that hard but the lab is.
> >
> > So please dont try to bring the CCIE down to the cash sucking level that
> > Microsoft have with there certification track.
> >
> > I dont quite understand the plus CCIE-awaiting number comment does that
> mean
> > you have not passed the lab yet but have passed the written? have you
even
> > tried the lab yet?
> >
> > I wish you luck in your persuit of a real handson industry
certification.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Shaun Nicholson CCIE 6705
> > Lead Network Engineer
> > Kaiser Permanente
> > Silver Spring Data Center
> > 301 680 1462
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > austin.alao@bt.com on 01/19/2001 06:59:00 AM
> > To: andrew.2.shore@bt.com@Internet, bhescock@cisco.com@Internet,
> > dcai@cisco.com@Internet
> > cc: johcamer@cisco.com@Internet, ccielab@groupstudy.com@Internet (bcc:
> Shaun
> > Nicholson/MD/KAIPERM)
> > Subject: RE: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
> >
> > Hey Andrew,
> >
> > I thought from the start of your email that you were actually going to
> make
> > a good case for criticising MR Dhezong. You actually ended up doing
worse
> in
> > my book by trying to ridicule Msoft and us, their engineers.
> > I am in the UK too, am MCSE+I and proudly so.
> > Let me also say that I am also CCNP and CCDP, plus CCIE-awaiting number.
> > While you are Msoft bashing, remember that if you introduced a routine
> "lab"
> > to MCSE where you configured Compaq servers, installed software, and
> > attempted everything on TechNet CD, you would also have a certification
> > exactly like the hallowed and over-hyped CCIE.
> > Take pride in your endeavours and don't slag off those of us who think
> that
> > Msoft is the most intelligently managed Corporation out there, and owe
our
> > daily-bread to their success.
> >
> > Lets show respect for fellow professionals and let the matter rest.
> >
> > Nuff said,
> >
> > Austin Alao,
> > 01442 431 247 / 07740 148 175
> > "He Who Brings Sunshine to the Life of Others, Cannot Himself Live in
> > Darkness"
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Shore,A,Andrew,YEF36 SHOREA2 C
> > Sent: 19 January 2001 03:30
> > To: bhescock@cisco.com; dcai@cisco.com
> > Cc: johcamer@cisco.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
> >
> > Perhaps if you worked in the real world you may find out how EASY Cisco
> is,
> > and if you're as good as you think you are, you may even earn some real
> > money
> >
> > I work in the UK and currently make over 100k and that's UK pounds not
> > dollars and I haven't even sat the lab yet. The CCIE is a benchmark used
> by
> > companies to rate employees ability, some companies (the one in Redmond)
> > make their products attractive by giving away certification rendering
them
> a
> > waste of paper, at least Cisco make people sweat for their
accreditation.
> >
> > A CCIE is nothing with out the real world experience to carry you
through
> > projects, treating CCIE as an academic exercise probably is easy but it
> > doesn't mean you can do the job.
> >
> > Just as a matter of interest you neglected to say how many attempts it
> took.
> >
> >
> > Andrew Shore
> > BTcd
> > Information Systems Engineering
> > Internet & Multimedia
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brian Hescock [mailto:bhescock@cisco.com]
> > Sent: 18 January 2001 21:58
> > To: dezhong
> > Cc: Cameron, John; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: Re: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
> >
> >
> > Dezhong,
> > You might want to unsubscribe from this list if you think the CCIE
is
> > so
> > easy and has no real value. All you're going to do is piss people off
by
> > making comments like that.
> >
> > Brian
> >
> > dezhong wrote:
> >
> > > Hi, John,
> > >
> > > You misunderstand me. I like cisco and still work hard for my group as
> > > before.
> > > I only want to say here is: CCIE, just another IT certification. We
> don't
> > > need to pay so much attention on it.
> > > I don't know why so many people think it is so difficult and so
> valuable?
> > >
> > > Dezhong Cai
> > > Cisco Systems, CCIE # 6621
> > >
> > > >
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Thu Jun 13 2002 - 10:27:36 GMT-3