From: Shaun Nicholson (Shaun.Nicholson@xxxxxx)
Date: Fri Jan 19 2001 - 11:50:04 GMT-3
How dare you compare the MCSE to the CCIE they are no way similar, I haved work
ed with MCSE's who could not wipe there own arse's with there paper cetificates
I myself started on the MCSE and stoped after 3 exams as I realized how worthl
ess it was plus I moved to the USA where I concentrated on working on Cisco equ
ipment more, so that became my chosen path. But still come on the MSCE is now a
big joke throughout the industry you should start to listen to your peers man.
Microsoft did what they always do they cashed in and turned out armys of Micro
soft solders to help sell there products and it worked. Hell Cisco are doing a
similar thing with the CCDA,CCDP, CCNA and CCNP tracks. I know I've done them t
oo.
I know not all MCSE or any other certs for that matter are paper and I'm not im
plying you are, how could I I dont even know you. But I can only speak from exp
eriances and there are more paper MCSE who do not know what they are doing out
there because they did bootcamps or what ever to get there screen based non han
dson certificates. You have to agree with that surerly the rest of the industry
does.
The MCSE is a basic do 6 exams on a computer screen and if you do the adaptive
exams it can take you less than 20 minutes an exam I know I speak from experian
ce. I dont even use the letters I was asigned from Microsoft (MCP) anymore it t
ook me 20 minutes to get a 55% pass. It has taken me 9 months of 40 hours a wee
k in the lab and 3 goes to get my lab ok so the written is not that hard but th
e lab is.
So please dont try to bring the CCIE down to the cash sucking level that Micros
oft have with there certification track.
I dont quite understand the plus CCIE-awaiting number comment does that mean yo
u have not passed the lab yet but have passed the written? have you even tried
the lab yet?
I wish you luck in your persuit of a real handson industry certification.
Thanks
Shaun Nicholson CCIE 6705
Lead Network Engineer
Kaiser Permanente
Silver Spring Data Center
301 680 1462
austin.alao@bt.com on 01/19/2001 06:59:00 AM
To: andrew.2.shore@bt.com@Internet, bhescock@cisco.com@Internet, dcai@cisco
.com@Internet
cc: johcamer@cisco.com@Internet, ccielab@groupstudy.com@Internet (bcc: Shau
n Nicholson/MD/KAIPERM)
Subject: RE: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
Hey Andrew,
I thought from the start of your email that you were actually going to make
a good case for criticising MR Dhezong. You actually ended up doing worse in
my book by trying to ridicule Msoft and us, their engineers.
I am in the UK too, am MCSE+I and proudly so.
Let me also say that I am also CCNP and CCDP, plus CCIE-awaiting number.
While you are Msoft bashing, remember that if you introduced a routine "lab"
to MCSE where you configured Compaq servers, installed software, and
attempted everything on TechNet CD, you would also have a certification
exactly like the hallowed and over-hyped CCIE.
Take pride in your endeavours and don't slag off those of us who think that
Msoft is the most intelligently managed Corporation out there, and owe our
daily-bread to their success.
Lets show respect for fellow professionals and let the matter rest.
Nuff said,
Austin Alao,
01442 431 247 / 07740 148 175
"He Who Brings Sunshine to the Life of Others, Cannot Himself Live in
Darkness"
-----Original Message-----
From: Shore,A,Andrew,YEF36 SHOREA2 C
Sent: 19 January 2001 03:30
To: bhescock@cisco.com; dcai@cisco.com
Cc: johcamer@cisco.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
Perhaps if you worked in the real world you may find out how EASY Cisco is,
and if you're as good as you think you are, you may even earn some real
money
I work in the UK and currently make over 100k and that's UK pounds not
dollars and I haven't even sat the lab yet. The CCIE is a benchmark used by
companies to rate employees ability, some companies (the one in Redmond)
make their products attractive by giving away certification rendering them a
waste of paper, at least Cisco make people sweat for their accreditation.
A CCIE is nothing with out the real world experience to carry you through
projects, treating CCIE as an academic exercise probably is easy but it
doesn't mean you can do the job.
Just as a matter of interest you neglected to say how many attempts it took.
Andrew Shore
BTcd
Information Systems Engineering
Internet & Multimedia
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Hescock [mailto:bhescock@cisco.com]
Sent: 18 January 2001 21:58
To: dezhong
Cc: Cameron, John; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
Dezhong,
You might want to unsubscribe from this list if you think the CCIE is
so
easy and has no real value. All you're going to do is piss people off by
making comments like that.
Brian
dezhong wrote:
> Hi, John,
>
> You misunderstand me. I like cisco and still work hard for my group as
> before.
> I only want to say here is: CCIE, just another IT certification. We don't
> need to pay so much attention on it.
> I don't know why so many people think it is so difficult and so valuable?
>
> Dezhong Cai
> Cisco Systems, CCIE # 6621
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cameron, John" <johcamer@cisco.com>
> To: "Cai, Dezhong" <dcai@cisco.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 1:34 PM
> Subject: RE: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
>
> > I wonder why your working at cisco with this kind of attitude.
> >
> > This isn't going to do the company any good when you broadcast
> > e-mails out too a public mail alias. What are you tring to
> > state here?
> >
> > JC
> >
> > C i s c o S y s t e m s John Cameron
> > Network Engineer
> > Research Triangle Park
> > || || Cisco Systems, Inc.
> > || ||
> > |||| ||||
> > ..:||||||:..:||||||:..
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dezhong [mailto:dcai@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 3:59 PM
> > To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
> >
> >
> > Hi, all,
> >
> > I heard many stories about how difficult to get the CCIE and how
> > valuable it
> > is. So now I'm.
> >
> > I joined Cisco last June as a new graduate student without any cisco
> > background.
> > I passed the CCIE in last Dec. My salary is still as low as 68,000. My
> > grade is still as low as 6. And it seem there is no big promotion in the
> > near future. No promotion to grade 8.
> >
> > I don't feel it is difficult to pass the CCIE. I also doubt the value of
> > the
> > CCIE. In my opinion, even you have CCIE, it still depend on whether you
> > have
> > good experience. Like me, without any work experience except in cisco
> > for
> > several months. Can you see I'm a valuable CCIE?
> >
> >
> > Dezhong Cai
> > Cisco Systems, CCIE # 6621
> >
> >
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