From: Frank Jimenez (franjime@xxxxxxxxx)
Date: Tue Jan 09 2001 - 02:26:56 GMT-3
I'm not really sure myself. The new Security and Service Provider tracks are i
ntriguing, but there has to be a point of diminishing returns, wouldn't you thi
nk? How much more is a triple CCIE worth? Not 3 times base salary, I'd wager.
Actually, the most interesting thing that I've seen is the 300 or so 'de-certif
ied' CCIEs. What do they do - are they all in management now, or are they just
working for Juniper?
Maybe we should come up with a twelve-step program....
Frank Jimenez, CCIE # 5738
franjime@cisco.com
At 06:14 PM 01/08/2001 -1000, you wrote:
>Interesting comment.
>
>So what is the next "thing" after CCIE? I got my R&S, and am interested in
>the Design. But where to afterwards? Stagnation is deterioration.
>
>FW
>CCIE #6561
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mask Of Zorro" <ciscokid00@hotmail.com>
>To: <franjime@cisco.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 4:40 PM
>Subject: Re: CCIE Growth rate..... (long)
>
>
>> Frank,
>>
>> I think you'll find that the number is pretty consistent over the past 3
>> years or so, at around 1100 per year.
>>
>> In response to Chuck Church's post below - This is a trend in the
>industry.
>> It started in the early 90's with the CNE. Armies of people were going
>after
>> the CNE 'cause it meant a good job with great pay. Then, as the market
>> became saturated, the pay rates began to fall.
>>
>> But just over the horizon was the MCSE, with the promise of new
>> opportunities and even bigger bucks. So the armies moved from the Novell
>> camp to the MS camp - and the market welcomed them. But as more and more
>> people passed all their tests and were issued their MCSE certs, the market
>> was again saturated, and rates began to fall.
>>
>> So the armies began scouting again for another camp with the same promise
>of
>> riches and glory. They found that camp - Cisco, with its newly introduced
>> CCNA certification - and so they moved. They studied... they bought used
>> routers on ebay... they bought their Todd Lammle books, and they got their
>> CCNA. BUT, no riches and glory were to follow. For those, they found that
>> they must reach higher - to the CCNP and beyond, to the CCIE. Only there
>> would the find the rewards they sought. And so they march onward and
>upward,
>> buying even more routers on ebay and even more books from Todd Lammle...
>and
>> Jeff Doyle, and Tom Thomas, and Bruce Caslow, and on and on and on. They
>> march even to this day. But their plan is flawed.
>>
>> Yes - it is flawed. The market can only accept a small number of CCIE's.
>> There is simply not the demand to reward entire armies of CCIE's as the
>> current crop are rewarded now. With CNE's and MCSE's it was easy - there
>> were literally millions of servers and desktops worldwide, and they all
>> needed certified support personnel. In every office building there was
>room
>> for dozensof CNE's or MCSE's. Not so with Cisco routers...
>>
>> Buildings, campuses, and even whole enterprises can make do with one or
>two
>> Cisco soldiers. Even in cases where there is a demand for more bodies,
>only
>> one or two need be CCIE, the rest need only be NP's or even NA's -
>destined
>> to earn less than...
>>
>> But the army marches on, storming camp Cisco. The waiting list for lab
>dates
>> gets longer and longer as more and more soldiers approach. Cisco
>recognizes
>> that the flood can do no good for the value of the CCIE cert as the market
>> will become saturated much more quickly than with the other camps, so it
>> fights back. They continually raise the bar, making it increasingly more
>> difficult to reach the top.
>>
>> The written exam changes. The lab content changes. Tracks split into
>> specialities (R&S, WAN, Dial, Design), and then are collapsed and rebuilt
>> (Service Provider IE). All to keep the numbers down and the demand high.
>>
>> Yet still they come - WE come, because you and I are marching too! Where
>> will the end begin? 10,000? 15,000? surely not higher... What will we do
>> then? Where will we march?
>>
>> Somewhere else, of course! I have been marching since '92 and I have no
>> plans of stopping any time soon. Don't worry about CCIE growth. Worry
>about
>> what you will do with your number, and what you will do next...
>>
>> Z
>>
>>
>> >From: Frank Jimenez <franjime@cisco.com>
>> >Reply-To: Frank Jimenez <franjime@cisco.com>
>> >To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> >Subject: CCIE Growth rate.....
>> >Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 15:40:02 -0600
>> >
>> >If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to collect CCIE dates from anyone
>who
>> >wants to send me their CCIE # and their date attained.
>> >
>> >I'll compile the information into a graph that I'll post out on the web.
>> >(Maybe Paul can put it in the GroupStudy site?) Some simple
>extrapolation
>> >ought to show how fast the CCIE community is growing.
>> >
>> >If you're interested, send me your CCIE number and date attained :
>> >franjime@cisco.com. To keep down traffic, DON'T send it to the ccielab
>> >group mailing list....
>> >
>> >Frank Jimenez, CCIE #5738
>> >franjime@cisco.com
>> >
>> >
>> >At 01:29 PM 01/08/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>> > >Let's not forget that these numbers are worldwide. How many new
>doctors
>> >and
>> > >lawyers do you think are produced by schools every year worldwide? You
>> >can
>> > >bet that it is more than 1200. This industry is growing faster than
>the
>> > >medical or Law industry. Don't worry guys.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >-----Original Message-----
>> > >From: Chuck Church [mailto:cchurch@MAGNACOM.com]
>> > >Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 10:23 AM
>> > >To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> > >Subject: RE: CCIE 6662, y--> CCIE numbers
>> > >
>> > >So it's safe to say that about 1200/year are currently being given out
>> > >(although the word 'given' hardly applies here). I thought a more
>> >realistic
>> > >number would be maybe 800/year. I guess with the rapidly decreasing
>> >value
>> > >of the CNE and MSCE, people had to turn elsewhere. That's why I'm here
>> > >after all!
>> > >
>> > >Chuck Church
>> > >CCNP, CCDP, MCNE, MCSE
>> > >Sr. Network Engineer
>> > >Magnacom Technologies
>> > >140 N. Rt. 303
>> > >Valley Cottage, NY 10989
>> > >845-267-4000 x218
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >-----Original Message-----
>> > >From: Kinton Connelly [mailto:kinton@oldmedia.com]
>> > >Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 12:18 PM
>> > >To: Chuck Church; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> > >Subject: RE: CCIE 6662, y--> CCIE numbers
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >14 new CCIE's over the past 4 days isn't a whole lot - there are 12
>> > >locations world-wide where you can take the lab. Let's figure 12
>> >locations
>> > >x 4 pods per location x (4 days total/2 days per attempt) = 96
>attempts,
>> >82
>> > >failures, 14 passes.
>> > >
>> > >That's about a 15% passing rate. Those are pretty rough numbers and an
>> > >extra pod thrown in here or there will really skew the results, but you
>> >get
>> > >the idea.
>> > >
>> > >Kinton
>> > >CCIE #5867
>> > >
>> > >P.S. Hey...that makes me wonder...I passed 8 months ago. That's about
>246
>> > >days. There have been 809 new CCIE's since then - that's about 3.3 new
>> > >CCIE's per day. (rough numbers again, so take them with a grain of
>salt -
>> > >they've added more pods and lab locations since last May).
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >At 1/8/01, Chuck Church wrote:
>> > >>Does that really means there's been 14 or so CCIEs given out in the
>last
>> > >>week? I thought this thing was hard :)
>> > >>
>> > >>Chuck Church
>> > >>CCNP, CCDP, MCNE, MCSE
>> > >>Sr. Network Engineer
>> > >>Magnacom Technologies
>> > >>140 N. Rt. 303
>> > >>Valley Cottage, NY 10989
>> > >>845-267-4000 x218
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>-----Original Message-----
>> > >>From: Tyler Pomerhn [mailto:tpomerhn@cisco.com]
>> > >>Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 9:49 AM
>> > >>To: John Bays; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> > >>Subject: RE: CCIE 6662, youngest in Asia Pacific, first for new
>> > >>millenium.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> > Maybe I'll be CCIE # 6666 ;-)
>> > >> > (Hey... what's the extra 6 for?)
>> > >> > 3 days and a wake-up.
>> > >>
>> > >>Too late... I just passed Saturday, and I'm #6676. :)
>> > >>
>> > >> >
>> > >> > John
>> > >> >
>> > >> > At 10:31 PM 1/4/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>> > >> > >I was the youngest Marine in my platoon.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >-----Original Message-----
>> > >> > >From: James Wilson [mailto:jamewils@cisco.com]
>> > >> > >Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 10:26 PM
>> > >> > >To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> > >> > >Subject: CCIE 6662, youngest in Asia Pacific, first for new
>> >millenium.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >Hi All,
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >A big thanks to everyone on this list for helpful in formation.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >As of yesterday I am the youngest CCIE in Asia Pacfic (Sydney).
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >Cheers.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >---
>> > >> > >James Wilson - CCIE #6662
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >Global On Site Service - APT
>> > >> > >Phone : +61-2-8448-7919 / +61-417-452-806
>> > >> > >Pager : +61-2-9430-6381
>> > >> > >James Wilson
>> > >> > >CCIE #6662
>> > >> > >
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