From: Scott Morris (SMorris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Date: Thu Dec 02 1999 - 12:05:25 GMT-3
Not true. Ask around with people who have been doing things, or more
importantly, those who have responded in writing to RFQs and used the term
"engineer" in any fashion with a title where they were not a licensed PE in
a particular state, or had an actual engineering degree from a university.
Dismiss it as you may, but if you're out really working in the world, this
IS a very important legal issue. I'm sorry you don't understand the
importance of it. Save your arguments for someone who's nailing your ass to
the wall because you couldn't figure out what your acronym certification
really stood for, or because you believed you were working on a train.
You may be a network engineer, but in most (if not all) states, you are
legally NOT allowed to use the term engineer on any documentation unless you
are a REAL engineer. I like to call myself the Great Information God around
work, that does not mean that I have any legal justification to consider
myself any sort of deity. :) In your own little pond, you can be whatever
you like.
In the real world, or in a public discussion forum, however, you need to
realize what you are, and more importantly what you are not.
And I've never heard the phrase "bee in your bonnet" before, that's cute.
Personally, I don't care what you call yourself. It started out as
something simple to point out to someone. It has since grown into a
discussion with more threads than some other technical issues have. No
reason.
There are facts in the real world about the term "engineer".
It is factual that CCIE does NOT contain the word "engineer" anywhere in it.
I have stated facts, and could really care less who calls themselves what in
their own little worlds. Why not call Cisco and verify what CCIE stands for
and WHY it does not contain the word "engineer". I think you would find
some interesting history along the way that really validates everything I've
mentioned.
If not, leave my bee and bonnet alone, and have a nice day.
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Baxter, Simon [mailto:simon.baxter@citicorp.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 9:35 AM
To: ccielab@groupstudy.com; cisco-cert@cciecert.com;
eenest@concentric.net; SMorris@tele-tech.com; sthong@ascend.co.jp;
ymadon@comtech.com.au
Subject: RE: CCIE = Cisco Certified Internetwork EXPERT
didn't you get a bee in your bonnet.
Unless you're falsely identifying yourself as an Electrical Engineer or
Civil Engineer etc. I doubt there are any legal ramifications for
calling yourself whatever you like. An engineer is just someone who
engineers things. I am a network engineer because I engineer networks.
It's not like you're calling yourself a Doctor or a Lawyer...
anyway, isn't this a "technical" forum?
-----Original Message-----
From: SMorris [mailto:SMorris@tele-tech.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 11:41 AM
To: eenest; sthong; SMorris; ymadon; cisco-cert; ccielab
Cc: SMorris
Subject: CCIE = Cisco Certified Internetwork EXPERT
It amazes me that for the caliber of people around, how many have such a
closed mind... Think outside the box gentlemen (and ladies as present).
Just because you are doing work and "engineering" things does NOT make
you
an engineer. While I have no knowledge of what other countries require,
almost every state (if not all of them) has legal requirements for
people
calling themselves "engineers".
When there are legal requirements involved, I don't care what it is you
are
doing, you need to pause and have some respect for it. While it's a
minor
point in the general scheme of things, it still boils down to the fact
that
these are generally very intelligent people, and yet they can't figure
out
what the acronym for their own certification really means. That is
"attention to detail". A REAL engineer (which I am not legally one
either),
would pay attention to minute details, especially when legal precedent
is
involved.
I'm sorry that this thread has taken so much of so many people's time,
especially when in the beginning it was a relatively inane issue.
However
as people are going out into the real world doing work, I would hate to
think that someone is going to get themselves burned on a large project
by
callously using the word "engineer" attached to a title they believe
they
have.
Consider it an education point and get on with life. *shrug*
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Eugene Nesterenko [mailto:eenest@msn.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 11:42 PM
To: Jinho Hong; Scott Morris; ymadon@comtech.com.au;
cisco-cert@cciecert.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: CCIE #5311
>
> Dear Morris,
>
> CCIE is just engineer also export.
> Basically, We are engineer.
>
> Regards,
> Jinho Hong
>
> CCIE # 5263
>
Jinho is definitely right!
As soon as you're tech person - you're engineer.
Hope you not driving taxicab for living :-)
Regards,
Eugene
-----------------------------------------------
Eugene Nesterenko, CCIE #5283, CCNP, CCDP, MCSE
Fax/Voice: +1 415 7043479
>
> -----Original Message-----
> ·ol : Scott Morris <SMorris@tele-tech.com>
> ^¶æ : 'Jinho Hong' <sthong@ascend.co.jp>; ymadon@comtech.com.au
> <ymadon@comtech.com.au>; cisco-cert@cciecert.com
> <cisco-cert@cciecert.com>;
> ccielab@groupstudy.com <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> "úZz : 1999"N 11OEZ 30"ú ?Î-j"ú OEßOEã 09:15
> OE-¼ : RE: CCIE #5311
>
>
> Actually, no, it's NOT engineer... It's Cisco Certified Internetwork
> Expert.... Nice try though!
>
> Scott Morris, MCSE, CNE(3.x), CCDP, CCIE #4713, Security
Specialization
> smorris@tele-tech.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jinho Hong [mailto:sthong@ascend.co.jp]
> Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999 11:23 PM
> To: ymadon@comtech.com.au; cisco-cert@cciecert.com;
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE #5311
>
>
> Congratulation!
>
> You're the excellent Engineer.
>
> Regards,
> Jinho Hong
>
> Cisco Certified Engineer (CCIE # 5263)
> Lucent Certified Engineer (LCTE)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> ·ol : ymadon@comtech.com.au <ymadon@comtech.com.au>
> ^¶æ : cisco-cert@cciecert.com <cisco-cert@cciecert.com>;
> ccielab@groupstudy.com <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> "úZz : 1999"N11OEZ30"ú 13:05
> OE-¼ : CCIE #5311
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >I passed my CCIE Lab exam two weeks ago .I do wish to share
some
> of my
> >experiences and pass on some of the things that helped me along
> the way. I
> also
> >wish to thank all the people who contribute to this list.
> >
> >Firstly the study material:
> >
> >Bridges, Routers and Switches for CCIEs: by Andrew Bruce Caslow
> >In my opinion this book is almost like a de-facto text book
> for the exam
> , it
> >clearly identifies the topics that are really important and key
issues
> within
> >those topics.
> > I can't say I read the book cover to cover, but I use the book
> extensively.
> >
> >CCIE Professional Development, Routing TCP/IP Vol 1: by Jeff Doyle
> >I used this book particularly for OSPF and protocol
> redistribution , but
> it is
> >an excellent book for all IP IGPs. It has plenty of very relevant
> examples and
> >scenarios.
> >
> >Internet Routing Architectures :by Bassam Halabi
> >This is super book for BGP, and almost a must read, Chapters 10,11
have
> plenty
> >of examples some of them are very relevant.
> >
> >Design Guides
> >I used quite a few of the design guides available on CCO, the
> BGP design
> guide
> >on the CD is excellent and extremely useful.
> >
> >Cisco CD
> >The search engine on the Cisco CD is fairly ordinary and I
always
> end up
> >spending a lot of time when I search for a particular topic.
> > It is imperative to know exactly where the important topics are
located
> on the
> >CD.
> >You cannot afford to use the search engine more too many
> times, it takes
> a lot
> >of time and it breaks your concentration.
> >
> >
> >Preparation
> >I guess I'm stating the obvious , but you really need to be
> an expert
> in IP
> >routing.
> >I spent about 60% of my preparation time on BGP and OSPF in an NBMA
> enviroment.
> >I think that really helped me,
> > it gave me the confidence to get off to a really good start.
> >
> > About 20% of my time on IPX, Apple Talk, ISDN and DLSW .
> > 20% on every thing else.
> >
> >The exam
> >I guess the most important thing about the exam is to remain cool
and
> focused,
> >the question needs to be read very carefully .
> >Things are not always what they seem to be .
> >Save your configs. Believe it or not , The whole building had
> a massive
> power
> >outage on my second day, and I lost quite a bit of configuration
> >
> >Good Luck! The exam is hard but not impossible.
> >
> >Regards
> >Yezdi Madon
> >CCIE # 5311
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>======================================================================
> >This email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper.
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Thu Jun 13 2002 - 08:21:58 GMT-3