Re: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese ?

There is no crystal ball to predict how much and when SDN will disrupt the
networking industry. So not sure what will happen 'after' SDN. Since we are
still in the 'before' SDN era, I wouldn't discount what CCIE can do for a
career in the next 2-5 year range.

With respect to SDN, we know the potential impact it could have to
networking. Good news is that Cisco is positioned very well for
transitioning to this technology. Already #2 in Intel based blade server
market. Cisco is now rolling network routers/switches with programmable
silicon that opens up more than 700 elements for direct ASIC programming.

My final thought is SDN will only take off when networkers decide to become
programmers (or vice versa). Fact is to find common problems abstraction
will solve and that reside in networking today takes an expertise in
networking. Programmers are going to have to accept that IP is foundational
to networking and for SDN to progress takes understanding existing
limitations, hence requiring a lot of milage on network gear.

Marc Edwards
CCIE #38259

On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Haroon <itguy.pro_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> lol
> I bet he knew at least that much after you were done with him. :D
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 3:23 PM, Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I know one that didn't even know what Ping was............hahahaha
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Haroon <itguy.pro_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> dhcp is pretty tough one.... a lot of them don't know what port PING
> >> operates on or difference between Linux/windows traceroute at the
> protocol
> >> level!!!
> >>
> >> anyway, world moving to SDN is like the world moved from manual cars to
> >> automatic and soon to robot cars.... is the mechanic still around or no?
> >> Yes. So, don't let stuff like SDN, CDN mess up with your goals... keep
> up
> >> with the technology that's all.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 2:24 PM, William McCall <
> william.mccall_at_gmail.com
> >> >wrote:
> >>
> >> > Can I admit I never bothered remembering DHCP much past the exams?
> >> >
> >> > Now that y'all gave an easy mnemonic, I guess I better.
> >> >
> >> > --WM
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 07/08/2013 01:00 PM, John Neiberger wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I know about Dora the Explorer, so....I'll work for $150k. :-)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 11:50 AM, marc abel <marcabel_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> I know about DORA, want to pay me $200k ;)
> >> >>> On Jul 7, 2013 1:47 PM, "Joseph L. Brunner" <
> >> joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The same 99% of SDN engineers will know little to nothing - like
> R/S
> >> >>>> engineers do now...
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Recall (and I posted it here a few times) we asked 50 (FIFTY) CCIE
> or
> >> >>>> senior level engineers for a job interview we conducted for a
> client
> >> to
> >> >>>> "describe dhcp" and how it works.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> NONE knew DORA... HOLY COW
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Never expected that... the offering salary was around $200k.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Sad. Very sad.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >> >>>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On
> >> Behalf Of
> >> >>>> Jay McMickle
> >> >>>> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 12:25 PM
> >> >>>> To: marc abel
> >> >>>> Cc: sameer khan; Mohamed A. Monsef Abbas; groupstudy
> >> >>>> Subject: Re: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese ?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> LOL. Same here!
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Regards,
> >> >>>> Jay McMickle- 2x CCIE #35355 (R/S,Sec)
> >> >>>> Sent from my iPhone 5
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Jul 7, 2013, at 11:20 AM, marc abel <marcabel_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Ha!
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> We will see. Finishing my VCP at the moment. Looking to start
> either
> >> >>>>> the
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>> security, data center, or CCDE next year. Still on the fence as to
> >> which
> >> >>>> way to go.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> -Marc
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Jay McMickle <
> >> jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> Agreed.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> PS- that brings us to the point- where is your 2nd IE, Marc? ;)
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Regards,
> >> >>>>>> Jay McMickle- 2x CCIE #35355 (R/S,Sec) Sent from my iPhone 5
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:30 AM, marc abel <marcabel_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> If you are afraid of change of technology go into accounting.
> That
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> hasn't
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> changed much in the last 30 years. I started as Novell Netware
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> certified.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> Want to guess when the last time I touched IPX/SPX protocol? You
> >> >>>>>>> see
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> the
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> change, you adapt. Often change in technology brings opportunity
> >> >>>>>>> because not everyone knows the new stuff yet.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> The CCIE was never an end point anyway. Once you earn the CCIE
> >> >>>>>>> route and switch then everyone expects you to be an expert on
> >> >>>>>>> wireless, or voice,
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> or
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> some other technology as well. Keep learning or wither and die in
> >> >>>>>>> this business.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> -Marc
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 8:33 AM, Jay McMickle
> >> >>>>>>> <jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> Being a CCIE and configuring something directly on the device is
> >> >>>>>>>> only a small part of the game.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Think of SDN a wireless controller and AP type relationship.
> You
> >> >>>>>>>> don't get upset that you don't have to configure
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> every
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> AP
> >> >>>>>>>> (autonomously) do you? You enjoy the centralized
> configuration.
> >> >>>>>>>> Think
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> of
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> this as being a method of making your job easier/centralized, not
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> taking
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> aware
> >> >>>>>>>> of your elite certification. Today's form of SDN is still
> >> >>>>>>>> premature,
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> but I
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> tell you this- all big player manufacturers are moving this way.
> >> >>>>>>>> So,
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> you
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> can
> >> >>>>>>>> switch brands, but you'll run into the same issue with each
> one.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> If SDN
> >> >>>>>>>> moves you away from seeking the CCIE, then maybe your goals are
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> misaligned.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> Technology is moving forward, with or without us. Fight it, and
> >> >>>>>>>> stand alone.
> >> >>>>>>>> Embrace it, and become the best at it.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Continue your studies and stay up
> >> >>>>>>>> with technology. That's my advice.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Cheers.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Regards,
> >> >>>>>>>> Jay McMickle- 2x CCIE
> >> >>>>>>>> #35355 (R&S,Sec)
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> ______________________________**__
> >>
> >> >>>>>>>> From: sameer khan
> >> >>>>>>>> <khanzadap_at_hotmail.com>
> >> >>>>>>>> To: Mohamed A. Monsef Abbas <m.abdelmonsef_at_gmail.com>
> >> >>>>>>>> Cc: groupstudy <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> >> >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 1:51 AM
> >> >>>>>>>> Subject: RE: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese ?
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Monsef thanks
> >> >>>>>>>> for replying, i really understand that Cisco program manager
> must
> >> >>>>>>>> have thought of something but let me take a flashback and try
> to
> >> >>>>>>>> explain where i am coming from, not too far back Microsoft
> dumped
> >> >>>>>>>> dos, with windows 95. With windows 95 the GUI eliminated the
> >> >>>>>>>> need of commands that were used for operation as simple as
> >> copying
> >> >>>>>>>> a file. The companies are there for one sole purpose that is to
> >> >>>>>>>> make money, so they will dump anything in return of more
> profits.
> >> >>>>>>>> To best
> >> >>>>>>>> of my understanding humans tend to follow the ease over
> hardship,
> >> >>>>>>>> and follow hardship in sight of return. As for networks, CCIEs
> >> are
> >> >>>>>>>> there to handle control plane and with SDN that control plane
> is
> >> >>>>>>>> being shifted ( that
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> is
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> unclear to me where at the moment) to something alike GUI or
> >> >>>>>>>> scripts or maybe both.
> >> >>>>>>>> I as a network engineer must understand the fundamental but
> will
> >> >>>>>>>> it makes sense to understand them to this scary amount of depth
> >> >>>>>>>> that CCIE goes into and also any one who i think is preparing
> for
> >> >>>>>>>> the lab exam will have solid foundation of the protocol but
> when
> >> >>>>>>>> proving it in the lab does that
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> make
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> sense
> >> >>>>>>>> and worth going for with SDN in perspective. CCIE is a number
> >> >>>>>>>> that is
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> a
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> proof
> >> >>>>>>>> of your understanding but will that proof be worthy and
> required
> >> >>>>>>>> in the first place ?
> >> >>>>>>>> i hope i made sense of my confusion :)
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 7 Jul
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> 2013 08:16:15 +0200
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> ?
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> From: m.abdelmonsef_at_gmail.com
> >> >>>>>>>>> To: khanzadap_at_hotmail.com
> >> >>>>>>>>> CC:
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> I wounder The GUI is created by engineers and you
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> are engineer how can you
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> create the click to do the action and how can you
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> click on this and
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> understand the action happens behind the seen are you a
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> help desk or
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> network engineer ?! again don't think that Cisco program
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> managers are
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> stupid to make the CCIE on of the Cisco programs that became a
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> reference
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> for understanding the technology and one of the Business
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> certificates that
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> make a Cisco market big will be dead due to another
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> product specially the
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> product is summarizing the command line again the GUI
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> wont be as easy like
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> the the command line, that's my own opinion and what I
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> see inside this
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> business while working in this field.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> Monsef
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 7:45 AM, sameer khan
> >> >>>>>>>>> <khanzadap_at_hotmail.com>
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> Hello guys,
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>> I am in pursuit of my CCIE R&S but now and
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> then i am hearing about sdn or
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> openflow that crushes my motivation and
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> stops me for moving forward, as
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> what i
> >> >>>>>>>>>> seem to perceive is that some
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> point in future, i am not saying tomorrow or
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> any
> >> >>>>>>>>>> time soon, the
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> commands and protocols that i am trying so hard to learn,
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> understand and
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> memorize will be transformed into mouse clicks and with
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> fancy
> >> >>>>>>>>>> GUI that
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> can make all the task easier but at the same time will make
> >> CCIE a
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> thing
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> of the past.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> I don't know if my assumption are any right but i am really
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> really
> >> >>>>>>>> confused
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> should i continue with CCIE R&S or take up programming and
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> VMware stuff (
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> though i already consider myself a decent programmer) ?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> I would be grateful if any one can be please help me out clear
> >> the
> >> >>>>>>>> this confusion.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> Thanks
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> http://www.ccie.net/
> >> >>>>>>>>
> ______________________________**______________________________**
> >>
> >> >>>>>>>> ______
> >> >>>>>>>> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
> >> >>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> >>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> http://www.ccie.net/
> >> >>>>>>>>
> ______________________________**______________________________**
> >>
> >> >>>>>>>> ______
> >> >>>>>>>> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
> >> >>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> >>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at
> >> >>>>>>>> http://www.ccie.net/
> >> >>>>>>>>
> ______________________________**______________________________**
> >>
> >> >>>>>>>> ______
> >> >>>>>>>> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
> >> >>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> >>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> ______________________________**______________________________**
> >>
> >> >>>>>>>> ______
> >> >>>>>>>> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
> >> >>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> >>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> --
> >> >>>>>>> Marc Abel
> >> >>>>>>> CCIE #35470
> >> >>>>>>> (Routing and Switching)
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> ______________________________**______________________________**
> >>
> >> >>>>>>> _______
> >> >>>>>>> ____ Subscription information may be found at:
> >> >>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> >>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> --
> >> >>>>> Marc Abel
> >> >>>>> CCIE #35470
> >> >>>>> (Routing and Switching)
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ______________________________**______________________________**
> >> >>>> ___________
> >>
> >> >>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >> >>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> >>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ______________________________**______________________________**
> >> >>> ___________
> >>
> >> >>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >> >>> http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >> >>
> >> >> ______________________________**______________________________**
> >> >> ___________
> >>
> >> >> Subscription information may be found at:
> >> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >> >
> >> > ______________________________**______________________________**
> >> > ___________
> >> > Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/**
> >> > list/CCIELab.html <http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> *Virtualization.net*
> >> *Post Jobs, News, Forums, Tutorials*
> >> http://www.virtualization.net
> >>
> >>
> >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
> >> Subscription information may be found at:
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Narbik Kocharians
> > *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> > *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> > Sr. Technical Instructor
> > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > A Cisco Learning Partner
> >
>
>
>
> --
> *Virtualization.net*
> *Post Jobs, News, Forums, Tutorials*
> http://www.virtualization.net
>
>
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>
> _______________________________________________________________________
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Received on Mon Jul 08 2013 - 14:12:26 ART