Re: OT----OT----SPv3 - DRM

discussing DRM VS NO DRM is very must relevant to students ..... and if big
names are involved in it ..it is good for us in the end ....

who complianed that this discussion shoud be in private ? how can you then
hear from customers ?

all thanks for Brain's and Narbik

On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Shane K <shanekgs_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> As long as everyone is making great products people will by them - end of.
> After that it doesn't matter where the material is, if its awesome I buy
> it.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 3:54 AM, Brian Dennis <bdennis_at_ine.com> wrote:
>
> > Narbik,
> > This isn't some INE vs Narbik thread and sorry if you took it that way.
> I
> > don't know much about your operation and didn't even know you personally
> > used Lock Lizard. I thought it was just the Cisco 360 material that used
> > it and mentioned that in my earlier email.
> >
> > This was just a thread about DRM and the use of DRM in education. Didn't
> > mean to upset anyone or piss anyone off. I just personally hate DRM ;-)
> >
> >
> > Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/**Voice)
> > bdennis_at_ine.com
> >
> > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > http://www.INE.com
> >
> > On 03/15/2012 07:57 PM, Narbik Kocharians wrote:
> >
> >> Guys,
> >>
> >> Thanks for your recommendation, i never thought that you all loved and
> >> cared for me that much.
> >>
> >> When a student is configuring a lab, he/she configures the lab using a
> >> laptop or a PC and NOT kindle, Iphone, Ipad, or Android, Brian this is
> >> not a complex RFC or a CCIE puzzle.
> >>
> >> And i have not heard any complaints, Josh is the first one that has
> >> complained about LockLizard and he did it in this thread, and this is
> >> the first time i am hearing about it, he has never e-mailed me his
> >> problems with DRM, have you Josh?
> >>
> >> Janet always provides extra licenses without any drama, the students
> >> have the right to print the document or purchase the printed version. We
> >> have been using this for a while now, and our products, which should be
> >> the main topic here, speaks for itself.
> >>
> >> */but using DRM does hinder them from learning/*
> >> We provide unlimited retakes, we promote education, we stay with our
> >> students until they pass this test, my relation with my students starts
> >> when our boot camp ends, I respond to my students questions, I ask them
> >> to e-mail me their questions directly, I even give them my phone number,
> >> we ask our students that have passed their test to retake the class at
> >> least once a year (At no cost) so they can stay up to date, these are
> >> the issues that provide education to the students and these are the
> >> issues that we need to discuss and NOT "Hey we don't use DRM, we trust
> >> everyone".
> >>
> >> */Maybe I could make more money if I locked it all down using DRM
> >> security/*
> >> I have never thought of making a little more money at my student's cost.
> >>
> >> We joined the 360 program, and this program is costing us an arm and a
> >> leg, but we eat the cost so our students can benefit seeing this entire
> >> thing from a different angle/perspective. You are talking to the wrong
> >> person my friend.
> >>
> >> LockLizard/DRM does not guarantee anything, it just makes it harder for
> >> the thieves. When you install Security cameras or lock your front door
> >> at home, it does not guarantee anything, it just makes it harder and
> >> hopefully deters the intruder.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 5:51 PM, Brian McGahan <bmcgahan_at_ine.com
> >> <mailto:bmcgahan_at_ine.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Arguing that website login authentication is the same is DRM is just
> >> absurd, and I'm sorry, but using DRM does hinder them from learning.
> >>
> >> Any end user who has ever used *any* DRM solution knows that DRM
> >> just ends up being a hassle at the end of the day, and still doesn't
> >> deter people who really want to copy your books, movies, music,
> >> software, etc. The only thing that DRM does really well is piss off
> >> your legitimate customers.
> >>
> >> Does locklizard work on Windows, MacOS, Linux, iPad, iPhone, Kindle,
> >> Android, and Windows Phone, etc.? If I buy electronic content and
> >> I'm limited to using it on one specific platform with one specific
> >> viewer with one specific plugin, then I'm sorry, that's a deal
> >> breaker for me as a customer.
> >>
> >>
> >> Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593 (R&S/SP/Security)
> >> bmcgahan_at_INE.com
> >>
> >> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> >> http://www.INE.com
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>
> >> [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>**] On
> >> Behalf Of Brian Dennis
> >> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 6:03 PM
> >> To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com**>
> >> Subject: Re: OT----OT----SPv3 - DRM
> >>
> >> Narbik,
> >> It doesn't limit their learning experience by requiring them to
> >> login to download their purchases. Just because you're upset at our
> >> stance on DRM you shouldn't need to reply in all caps.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/**Voice)
> >> bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
> >>
> >> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> >> http://www.INE.com
> >>
> >>
> >> On 03/15/2012 03:31 PM, Narbik Kocharians wrote:
> >> > Protecting your work does not mean that you are punishing your
> >> honest
> >> > paying clients, all they have to do is to click on our book and it
> >> > opens and they can read and access it, how does that hinder them
> >> from learning?
> >> >
> >> > BTW, WHY DO YOU GUYS HAVE A USERNAME AND PASSWORD FOR ACCESSING
> YOUR
> >> > WORKBOOKS, VIDEOS AND ETC? what is it..... you don't trust
> >> people? WHY?
> >> > leave it open, who ever paid, will click and access your stuff,
> >> people
> >> > that have not paid, they will NEVER do that. Correct? Are you NOT
> >> > trying to protect your work?
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Brian Dennis <bdennis_at_ine.com
> >> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
> >> > <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Our products are up there now and have been for years. It
> >> doesn't
> >> > mean I'm going to punish honest paying customers by
> restricting
> >> > their access and forcing them to use a horrible program like
> >> > LockLizard or whatever that new one Cisco uses is called.
> >> >
> >> > I honestly believe that the vast major of people in this
> >> world are
> >> > honest and I'm not going hinder their learning experience by
> >> > treating them like they are dishonest.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210
> (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/__**Voice)
> >> >
> >> > bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com
> >> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>
> >> >
> >> > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> >> > http://www.INE.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 03/15/2012 02:53 PM, Narbik Kocharians wrote:
> >> >
> >> > So Brian what do you do when someone purchases your
> >> book/s and
> >> > puts it
> >> > on one of these shared sites? What if the shared site is
> >> in another
> >> > country?
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Paul Negron
> >> > <negron.paul_at_gmail.com <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>
> >> <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>**>
> >> > <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>
> >> <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>**>>__>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > GREAT
> >> > --
> >> > Paul Negron
> >> > CCIE# 14856 CCSI# 22752
> >> > Senior Technical Instructor
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > From: Ryan West <rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>
> >> <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>>
> >> > <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>
> >> <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>>>>
> >> > > Reply-To: Ryan West <rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>
> >> > <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>>
> >> <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>
> >> > <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>>>>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > > Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 21:32:18 +0000
> >> > > To: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:
> >> narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> >> > <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>>
> >> <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> >> > <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>>>>
> >>
> >> > > Cc: Brian Dennis <bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
> >> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>
> >> > <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
> >> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>>>,
> >> > "ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com**>
> >> <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com**>>
> >> > <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com**>
> >> <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> **>>__>"
> >> > > <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com**>
> >> <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com**>>
> >> > <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com**>
> >> > <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com**
> >> >>__>>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > > Conversation: OT----OT----SPv3 - DRM
> >> > > Subject: Re: OT----OT----SPv3 - DRM
> >> > >
> >> > > I agree, they are great.
> >> > >
> >> > > Sent from handheld
> >> > >
> >> > > On Mar 15, 2012, at 5:26 PM, "Narbik Kocharians"
> >> > <narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> >> <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>>
> >> > <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> >>
> >> <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>>>> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> WOW, unbelievable. You guys are GR8.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Brian Dennis
> >> > <bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com
> >> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>
> >> > <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
> >>
> >> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>>> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> INE does not use any sort of DRM for our PDFs or videos. When
> >> > you buy the
> >> > >>> product, it's yours to use as you see fit. You want the play
> >> > the videos on
> >> > >>> your phone, tablet, TV, computer, etc offline or online? You
> >> > can do it.
> >> > >>> You want to use the workbook PDFs on your phone, tablet,
> >> > notebook, etc
> >> > >>> offline or online? You can do it. You want to print the PDF
> >> > 1000 times?
> >> > >>> Then do it. I'm not going to restrict that.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> You bought it and it's your product. Just because someone
> else
> >> > isn't
> >> > >>> honest I'm not going to treat you like you're dishonest.
> Screw
> >> > DRM.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> --
> >> > >>> Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/**__**
> >> Voice)
> >> > >>> bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
> >> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>
> >> > <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
> >>
> >> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>>
> >> >
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> >> > >>> http://www.INE.com
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> On 03/15/2012 11:33 AM, Paul Negron wrote:
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>> Funny how everyone seems to AGREE on NDA integrity and then
> >> > turns around
> >> > >>>> and
> >> > >>>> shares workbook material that they alone are licensed for. I
> >> > feel the same
> >> > >>>> way about software nowadays. Offer me the FULL version with
> an
> >> > option to
> >> > >>>> buy
> >> > >>>> it if I like it.(That's fair).
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> The Brians, Narbik and every vendor that helps here works
> very
> >> > hard to
> >> > >>>> give
> >> > >>>> you the very best they have. Everyone should honor that.
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> Unfortunately there will be always be the NOBLE cheater that
> >> > feels they
> >> > >>>> can
> >> > >>>> just download a song off there buddy's laptop and feel that
> it
> >> > is somehow
> >> > >>>> OK. Stealing is Stealing no matter how you spin it.
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> >
> >> ______________________________**__**__________________________**
> >> ______**
> >> > >>> ___________
> >> > >>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >> > http://www.groupstudy.com/**
> >> > >>> list/CCIELab.html
> >> > <http://www.groupstudy.com/__**list/CCIELab.html<
> http://www.groupstudy.com/__list/CCIELab.html>
> >> > <http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> >> >>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> --
> >> > >> *Narbik Kocharians
> >> > >> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> >> > >> *www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.MicronicsTraining.
> **com<http://www.MicronicsTraining.com>
> >> >
> >> > <http://www.MicronicsTraining.**com<
> http://www.MicronicsTraining.com>
> >> >
> >> > <http://www.MicronicsTraining.**__com
> >> > <http://www.MicronicsTraining.**com<
> http://www.MicronicsTraining.com>
> >> >>*
> >> >
> >> > <http://www.micronicstraining.**__com/
> >> > <http://www.micronicstraining.**com/<
> http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> >> >>
> >> > >> Sr. Technical Instructor
> >> > >> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> >> > >> Training & Remote Racks available
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> ______________________________**______________________________**
> >> _______________
> >> > >> Subscription information may be found at:
> >> > >> http://www.groupstudy.com/__**list/CCIELab.html<
> http://www.groupstudy.com/__list/CCIELab.html>
> >> > <http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> ______________________________**______________________________**
> >> _______________
> >> > > Subscription information may be found at:
> >> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/__**list/CCIELab.html<
> http://www.groupstudy.com/__list/CCIELab.html>
> >> > <http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > *Narbik Kocharians
> >> > *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> >> > *www.MicronicsTraining.com
> >> <http://www.MicronicsTraining.**com <
> http://www.MicronicsTraining.com>>
> >> <http://www.MicronicsTraining.**com <http://www.MicronicsTraining.com
> >>*
> >>
> >> > <http://www.micronicstraining.**__com/
> >> > <http://www.micronicstraining.**com/<
> http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> >> >>
> >> > Sr. Technical Instructor
> >> > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> >> > Training & Remote Racks available
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > *Narbik Kocharians
> >> > *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> >> > *www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.MicronicsTraining.**com<
> http://www.MicronicsTraining.com>
> >> >*
> >> <http://www.micronicstraining.**com/<
> http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> >> >
> >> > Sr. Technical Instructor
> >> > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> >> > Training & Remote Racks available
> >>
> >>
> >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>
> >> ______________________________**______________________________**
> >> ___________
> >> Subscription information may be found at:
> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> >>
> >>
> >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>
> >> ______________________________**______________________________**
> >> ___________
> >> Subscription information may be found at:
> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> *Narbik Kocharians
> >> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> >> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.**com/<
> http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> >> >
> >> Sr. Technical Instructor
> >> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> >> Training & Remote Racks available
> >>
> >
> >
> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >
> > ______________________________**______________________________**
> > ___________
> > Subscription information may be found at: http://www.groupstudy.com/**
> > list/CCIELab.html <http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html

Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Fri Mar 16 2012 - 21:35:09 ART