Re: PhD vs CCIE

Mate.... education is all business, two of my kids are going to MED school,
and God knows how much I am paying. Education is free if you are VERY VERY
good or you have LOTS OF $$$$$, or you have nothing. The guys in the middle
of the pack (The majority) suffer and pay.

But a nice discussion, back to work my friend....Paul and i have the SPv3
to finish.

Have a nice day

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net> wrote:

> By the way have you ever thought the increase in the number of CCIEs was
> for purely business reasons - for example to compete with Juniper
> I am not saying there arent some categories of CCIE specialisation that
> may be needed but as many as we have now I am not sure. Certification is
> also big money to companies.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>
> CC: joe <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>; ccielab
> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 19:55
> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>
> BTW, so you see that number of CCIEs in the world has nothing to do with
> the value of the cert. If it did, PHDs will have no value at all, i bet
> there are 10 times more PHDs than CCIEs. A bad point.
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net> wrote:
>
>> Thats a nice question Narbikk. The answer is no but for one reason - PhDs
>> are awarded by many universities but CCIEs are only awarded by one company.
>> Is the question therefore do we really need so many types of CCIE or could
>> we consolidate them into a more generalist CCIE. Doesnt the whole concept
>> of UC for example mean for example that we need a more generalist sort of
>> CCIE again ie what CCIE discipline doesnt have a high proportion of Routing
>> and Switching ? Couldnt we revert back to a three day CCIE where you did
>> the core as Routing and Switching and then the other two days in the
>> specialist areas - security, wireless, service provider, etc
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>> To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>
>> CC: joe <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>;
>> ccielab <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 19:18
>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>
>> Few years ago we had one or two tracks, these days we have more tracks.
>> Do we know the number of people who have their PHDs?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Joe,
>>>
>>> Agreed and why do you think there are now 26,000 CCIEs against 10,000 a
>>> few
>>> years ago - even certification is a money making business - I estimated I
>>> spent around $30000 on getting my CCIE - between courses , labs, exams,
>>> bootcamps , time of work - and I didnt pass it first time. I think there
>>> is
>>> only a 20% first time pass rate now and that means a lot of money to
>>> someone.
>>>
>>> And by the way I dont mind people making money out of me - even on
>>> certification as long as I get value for money.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Joseph L. Brunner <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
>>> To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>;
>>> ccielab
>>> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 17:34
>>> Subject: RE: PhD vs CCIE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ib d bet dollars to cents 10,000+ of the 17,320 R/S guys are emeritusb&
>>>
>>> If Cisco didnb t do that the cert would look like it isnb t as valuable
>>> as
>>> it was in 1999 and they couldnb t make as much money selling training
>>> for it
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Bill6521 [mailto:bil6521_at_netscape.net]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:29 AM
>>> To: Joseph L. Brunner; jazzsunn_at_gmail.com; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Joseph,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read my article in CCIE Flyer. Nor did they break it down by age or sex
>>> or
>>> nationality.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Joseph L. Brunner <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
>>> To: jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>; Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>;
>>> ccielab
>>> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 17:22
>>> Subject: RE: PhD vs CCIE
>>>
>>> Notice they don't break down how many "Emeritus"
>>>
>>> LOL
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: jazzsunn_at_gmail.com [mailto:jazzsunn_at_gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:15 AM
>>> To: Joseph L. Brunner; Bill6521; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>>
>>> According to LTRCC-3000.pdf (updated 1/9/12, available on
>>> ciscolivevirtual.com),
>>> there are 26,634 currently certified CCIEs.
>>> RS - 17,320
>>> Sec - 3794
>>> SP - 2885
>>> Voice - 2291
>>> SAN - 170
>>> Wireless - 93
>>> CCDE - 63
>>> SP Ops - 11
>>> CCAr - 7
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent via BlackBerry
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "Joseph L. Brunner" <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
>>> Sender: nobody_at_groupstudy.com
>>> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 16:07:02
>>> To: Bill6521<bil6521_at_netscape.net>;
>>> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>> Reply-To: "Joseph L. Brunner" <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
>>> Subject: RE: PhD vs CCIE
>>>
>>> No there are far less CCIE's than that - many older lions are retiring
>>> from
>>> the
>>> business.
>>>
>>> Of that number how many are current on today's technologies?
>>>
>>> Don't sell yourself short - I had a job req out at a client in 2009 for
>>> a CCIE
>>> at $225,000 or so - the first 50 guys we interviewed could not explain
>>> how
>>> DHCP
>>> worked :) (DoRa for those of you that know)
>>>
>>> "how many good ones"
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Bill6521
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:57 AM
>>> To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>> Subject: Fwd: PhD vs CCIE
>>>
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>
>>> I think we are all missing the point here the discussion from my point
>>> of view
>>> is "employability" and here is my perspective. Today I understand there
>>> are
>>> over
>>> 30,000 CCIEs thats three times what there was a few years ago and even
>>> 7,000 more then when I got my number. Gone are the days when employers
>>> would
>>> be
>>> lucky about getting one CCIE and we were literally regarded as "network
>>> gods".
>>> We are competing against "each other" and in a highly competitive world
>>> - even as CCIEs. In that competitive world you have to give yourself an
>>> "edge"
>>> a something extra - what I would suggest is dont just bank on getting
>>> employed
>>> because you are a CCIE - and dont forget some off us are also getting
>>> employed
>>> because we have track records as well as being CCIEs. Most employment
>>> agents/HR
>>> departments do a word trawl in the first instance and the more edge you
>>> have
>>> the
>>> more likely you have to move to the next stage of interview etc thats
>>> what
>>> these
>>> certifications do for you - and dont also be a one trick pony
>>> - consider doing a JNCIE or HP Master ASE as well as another CCIE.
>>>
>>>
>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Narbik Kocharians
>> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com*
>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>> Training & Remote Racks available
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Narbik Kocharians
> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> Sr. Technical Instructor
> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> Training & Remote Racks available
>
>

-- 
*Narbik Kocharians
*CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
*www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
Sr. Technical Instructor
YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
Training & Remote Racks available
Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net