Re: OT: CCIE != PhD

Narbik,

I totally agree with you, but your view is of a man with more life/work
experience. I think that today the most CCIE candidates are young guys like
20-35 years.
for us the patience is a fight, believe me.

My family was punished a lot of times in the last track :( and I'm planning
to go the next track like Narbik said, a little more quiet.

Narbik, give me the 'magic formula' for this :p

BRs,

2012/3/4 Roy Khan <roykhan123_at_hotmail.com>

> Agreed with Narbaik
>
>
> > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 21:43:42 -0800
> > Subject: Re: OT: CCIE != PhD
> > From: narbikk_at_gmail.com
> > To: engrenny_at_hotmail.com
> > CC: don.rajaratne_at_gmail.com; aaron1_at_gvtc.com; negron.paul_at_gmail.com;
> pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com; niedentj_at_hotmail.com; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> >
> > Paul and Aaron,
> >
> > I am totally with you both.
> >
> > People are doing it the wrong way, getting CCIE or a degree should NOT
> > affect your family the wrong way, you should NOT take away from your
> family
> > just to do a lab or read an article. If this is you, YOU ARE DOING IT
> WRONG.
> >
> > If you study an hour or two a day, you will get there without any
> headache
> > or heartache. The problem with most of us is that we want it TODAY, we
> > don't have any patience, some of us think that life is going to end
> > tomorrow, and if we don't get it today, the certification is not going to
> > be the same.
> >
> > Cisco has been there for a long time and they will be there for years to
> > come, so take your time and study couple of hours a day and you will get
> > there when you are totally ready.
> >
> > I have 4 kids, and i used to LOVE sports, but once i decided to get my
> > CCIE, the only thing that suffered was the time i was spending in Gym and
> > NOT when i was with my family.
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 9:27 PM, OLUSEGUN DADA <engrenny_at_hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > No matter how understanding she is, there is always going to be a
> > > different because a woman will always be a woman
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Dada Olusegun
> > > CCIE#32395, CEH, JNCIS
> > >
> > > Sent from my BlackBerry. Smartphone, from Etisalat.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Don Rajaratne <don.rajaratne_at_gmail.com>
> > > Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 04:48:54
> > > To: <aaron1_at_gvtc.com>; <negron.paul_at_gmail.com>; <pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com>;
> <
> > > niedentj_at_hotmail.com>
> > > Cc: <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> > > Subject: Re: OT: CCIE != PhD
> > >
> > > As long as if you have an understanding wife, that's all it matters.
> > >
> > > Don.
> > > Sent from my BlackBerry.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: "Aaron" <aaron1_at_gvtc.com>
> > > Sender: nobody_at_groupstudy.com
> > > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 22:38:03
> > > To: 'Paul Negron'<negron.paul_at_gmail.com>; 'Radioactive Frog'<
> > > pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com>; 'Travis Niedens'<niedentj_at_hotmail.com>
> > > Reply-To: "Aaron" <aaron1_at_gvtc.com>
> > > Cc: <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> > > Subject: RE: OT: CCIE != PhD
> > >
> > > Since Paul brought family into the discussion...allow me to expound on
> that
> > > my feelings...
> > >
> > > I was single (unmarried) when I attained a Bachelors in Computer
> Science
> > > while holding a full time active career in the US Marines as a Staff
> > > Sergeant.
> > >
> > > I'm now married with 7 children and trying to get a CCIE. (I've also
> heard
> > > college is very hard when you have a wife and children also)
> > >
> > > I think this is one of the most difficult things I've ever done....try
> to
> > > get a CCIE while being a full time Sr Net Eng, father and husband...
> > >
> > > I think it would be one thing to attain the CCIE... but it's a whooole
> > > other
> > > thing to cross the finish line of CCIE and have my wife and children
> proud
> > > and happy for me, not resenting the CCIE that dad/hubby neglected them
> > > while
> > > pursuing. Paul thanks for the reminder....I needed it.
> > >
> > > I DO NOT want a CCIE if it means I have to be at odds with my wife,
> > > children
> > > and others over it.
> > >
> > > After all, when you are old and grey and perhaps breathing your last
> > > breath,
> > > do you want to be surrounded at your bed side by a bunch of GS'ers!!
> Ha,
> no
> > > of course not....you want the ones who you love (your family) around
> > > you....
> > > I'll end with that.
> > >
> > > Aaron
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > > Paul
> > > Negron
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 8:49 PM
> > > To: Radioactive Frog; Travis Niedens
> > > Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: Re: OT: CCIE != PhD
> > >
> > > I've always said. You need to be able to take of your family at the end
> of
> > > the day.Hopefully you can help take care of others as well. Everything
> else
> > > is just a stroke job for your ego.
> > >
> > > Paul
> > > --
> > > Paul Negron
> > > CCIE# 14856 CCSI# 22752
> > > Senior Technical Instructor
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > From: Radioactive Frog <pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com>
> > > > Reply-To: Radioactive Frog <pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com>
> > > > Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 13:24:07 +1100
> > > > To: Travis Niedens <niedentj_at_hotmail.com>
> > > > Cc: <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: OT: CCIE != PhD
> > > >
> > > > Completely agreed with Travis.
> > > >
> > > > Two completely different things.
> > > >
> > > > With CCIE we're not inventing or doing anything new but just like a
> Chef
> > > > show on the Tele.
> > > > Who can cook, and how accurate it is.
> > > >
> > > > I guess at the end what really count is that your interest.
> > > > The matter of the fact is that if you're really clever and have great
> > > idea
> > > > to develop something, you should not do CCIE at all - go for PhD.
> (there
> > > > would be an arguments that why do PhD if you've great ideas,
> inventive
> > > > mind).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > However, if you're just doing a PhD without any great invention in
> mind
> > > > (which most people do), then one would be better off with doing CCIE.
> > > >
> > > > Remember CCIE pays more than PhD ::)
> > > >
> > > > ccAr is definitely interesting.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 3:46 PM, Travis Niedens <niedentj_at_hotmail.com
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I usually don't speak out about this stuff however I have noticed
> way
> > > too
> > > >> many people comparing the CCIE to the PhD and quite frankly I find
> that
> > > an
> > > >> absurd comparison. Anyone who has worked on their Masters and PhD
> can
> > > >> attest to the rigor that is required for the PhD as well as the
> process
> > > >> involved and final goals. If you look at the CCIE it is a test that
> > > >> encompasses:
> > > >>
> > > >> - A CISCO specific technology line
> > > >> - Each test set has a fixed set of possible exams that are updated
> and
> > > >> swapped time to time to avoid cheating
> > > >> - Only requires configuration and troubleshooting - again, heavy
> Cisco
> > > >> specific focus
> > > >> - Graded by a system, confirmed by a human
> > > >> - 8 hours to prove that you have absorbed enough knowledge to
> configure
> > > >> things the Cisco way
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> The PhD is not this at all, in fact the PhD's main goal is for the
> > > student
> > > >> to learn enough about their area of interest so they can build a
> thesis,
> > > go
> > > >> out and scientifically research it and then DEFEND it and add to the
> > > body
> > > >> of human knowledge. While we all spend thousands of dollars,
> hundreds
> if
> > > >> not thousands of hours in labs / working and hours weekly responding
> to
> > > GS,
> > > >> with the CCIE we are not creating anything new for the body of human
> > > >> knowledge. I don't say this lightly as I know the vendors work hard
> on
> > > >> their materials however if you look at two of them side by side you
> will
> > > >> see many of the same configurations as that's the way Cisco
> programmed
> > > the
> > > >> IOS parser to handle the magic.
> > > >>
> > > >> There are key milestones in the PhD process / journey including:
> > > >>
> > > >> - Research classes
> > > >> - Academic writing classes
> > > >> - Colloquia
> > > >> - Comps
> > > >> - Thesis Research
> > > >> - Thesis Dissertation
> > > >> - Thesis Defense
> > > >>
> > > >> Keep in mind that most universities have a 2 times and then out
> policy
> -
> > > >> thus meaning if you fail your comps or defense twice, you are out.
> You
> > > have
> > > >> just spent 10's of thousands of dollars and years on your thesis and
> > > >> education and failed.
> > > >>
> > > >> In comparison, Cisco allows you to take the CCIE over and over and
> over
> > > >> and requires no original contribution to the field of
> > > >> networking/security/voice/SP, etc. This is just to gain revenue and
> > > ensure
> > > >> Cisco skilled workers in IT worldwide.
> > > >>
> > > >> As I see it, the closest thing to a PhD Cisco has now is the CCAr.
> While
> > > >> Cisco's path to making and expanding this program has been rather
> > > lengthy
> > > >> and slow, I do hope that they continue to push it. The Ar cannot be
> > > >> accomplished by just any testking and requires a defense. In
> addition
> it
> > > >> requires an initial response to questions, similar to comps, and
> they
> > > MUST
> > > >> be acceptable before moving on to the panel phase.
> > > >>
> > > >> So here's how I see it:
> > > >>
> > > >> Associates (2 years) - CCxA *
> > > >> Bachelors (4 years) - CCxP *
> > > >> Masters (6 years) - CCIE *
> > > >> PhD (8+ years) - CCAr
> > > >>
> > > >> Good luck in your studies!
> > > >>
> > > >> Travis
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > > >>
> > > >>
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Narbik Kocharians
> > *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> > *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> > Sr. Technical Instructor
> > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > Training & Remote Racks available
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-- 
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CCIE #30939
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