RE: OT: CCIE != PhD

Dear all

This is utterly nonsense comparing technical certification with PHD ,you can
earn more money in short period of time while having Technical Certification
.All Technical Certification have their period when number of masses getting
increase the worth also going down at same proportion .It had happened with
Microsoft ,Dot NEt many other examples ,but PHD remain its statue static as it
was before .I heard this kind of comment from 3rd world of peoples like
Pakistan .I mention Pakistan because i m from there but i cannot imagine that
you guys will also discuss the same thing

People should face the reality so many dumps available to get the exam
.Recently CCIE-SP lab dump was roaming around and people do get their
certification as well .A guy came after his A-Level just passed CCIE lab after
sucking the INE ,IPEXPERT,Narbik topology .It doesnt mean that his
intelligence equivalent to "MS" & "PHD" level. Majority do get their CCIE
just for money not for knowledge as compare to PHD's

Thanks
Faizan Khurshid

> Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 21:40:26 -0800
> Subject: RE: OT: CCIE != PhD
> From: niedentj_at_hotmail.com
> To: aaron1_at_gvtc.com; negron.paul_at_gmail.com; pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com
> CC: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>
> I'm married with four kids, working full time as a network architect,
finishing my masters in information security and trying to finish up the ccie
security. At the end of this year I am starting on the PhD and hope to get
through the ccde in the next year as well. I completely understand that it is
a difficult balance.
>
> Travis
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Aaron
> Sent: 4 Mar 2012 04:38:46 GMT
> To: 'Paul Negron','Radioactive Frog','Travis Niedens'
> Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: OT: CCIE != PhD
>
> Since Paul brought family into the discussion...allow me to expound on that
> my feelings...
>
> I was single (unmarried) when I attained a Bachelors in Computer Science
> while holding a full time active career in the US Marines as a Staff
> Sergeant.
>
> I'm now married with 7 children and trying to get a CCIE. (I've also heard
> college is very hard when you have a wife and children also)
>
> I think this is one of the most difficult things I've ever done....try to
> get a CCIE while being a full time Sr Net Eng, father and husband...
>
> I think it would be one thing to attain the CCIE... but it's a whooole
other
> thing to cross the finish line of CCIE and have my wife and children proud
> and happy for me, not resenting the CCIE that dad/hubby neglected them
while
> pursuing. Paul thanks for the reminder....I needed it.
>
> I DO NOT want a CCIE if it means I have to be at odds with my wife,
children
> and others over it.
>
> After all, when you are old and grey and perhaps breathing your last
breath,
> do you want to be surrounded at your bed side by a bunch of GS'ers!! Ha, no
> of course not....you want the ones who you love (your family) around
you....
> I'll end with that.
>
> Aaron
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Paul
> Negron
> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 8:49 PM
> To: Radioactive Frog; Travis Niedens
> Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: OT: CCIE != PhD
>
> I've always said. You need to be able to take of your family at the end of
> the day.Hopefully you can help take care of others as well. Everything else
> is just a stroke job for your ego.
>
> Paul
> --
> Paul Negron
> CCIE# 14856 CCSI# 22752
> Senior Technical Instructor
>
>
>
> > From: Radioactive Frog <pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com>
> > Reply-To: Radioactive Frog <pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com>
> > Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 13:24:07 +1100
> > To: Travis Niedens <niedentj_at_hotmail.com>
> > Cc: <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> > Subject: Re: OT: CCIE != PhD
> >
> > Completely agreed with Travis.
> >
> > Two completely different things.
> >
> > With CCIE we're not inventing or doing anything new but just like a Chef
> > show on the Tele.
> > Who can cook, and how accurate it is.
> >
> > I guess at the end what really count is that your interest.
> > The matter of the fact is that if you're really clever and have great
idea
> > to develop something, you should not do CCIE at all - go for PhD. (there
> > would be an arguments that why do PhD if you've great ideas, inventive
> > mind).
> >
> >
> > However, if you're just doing a PhD without any great invention in mind
> > (which most people do), then one would be better off with doing CCIE.
> >
> > Remember CCIE pays more than PhD ::)
> >
> > ccAr is definitely interesting.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 3:46 PM, Travis Niedens <niedentj_at_hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> I usually don't speak out about this stuff however I have noticed way
too
> >> many people comparing the CCIE to the PhD and quite frankly I find that
> an
> >> absurd comparison. Anyone who has worked on their Masters and PhD can
> >> attest to the rigor that is required for the PhD as well as the process
> >> involved and final goals. If you look at the CCIE it is a test that
> >> encompasses:
> >>
> >> - A CISCO specific technology line
> >> - Each test set has a fixed set of possible exams that are updated and
> >> swapped time to time to avoid cheating
> >> - Only requires configuration and troubleshooting - again, heavy Cisco
> >> specific focus
> >> - Graded by a system, confirmed by a human
> >> - 8 hours to prove that you have absorbed enough knowledge to configure
> >> things the Cisco way
> >>
> >>
> >> The PhD is not this at all, in fact the PhD's main goal is for the
> student
> >> to learn enough about their area of interest so they can build a thesis,
> go
> >> out and scientifically research it and then DEFEND it and add to the
body
> >> of human knowledge. While we all spend thousands of dollars, hundreds if
> >> not thousands of hours in labs / working and hours weekly responding to
> GS,
> >> with the CCIE we are not creating anything new for the body of human
> >> knowledge. I don't say this lightly as I know the vendors work hard on
> >> their materials however if you look at two of them side by side you will
> >> see many of the same configurations as that's the way Cisco programmed
> the
> >> IOS parser to handle the magic.
> >>
> >> There are key milestones in the PhD process / journey including:
> >>
> >> - Research classes
> >> - Academic writing classes
> >> - Colloquia
> >> - Comps
> >> - Thesis Research
> >> - Thesis Dissertation
> >> - Thesis Defense
> >>
> >> Keep in mind that most universities have a 2 times and then out policy -
> >> thus meaning if you fail your comps or defense twice, you are out. You
> have
> >> just spent 10's of thousands of dollars and years on your thesis and
> >> education and failed.
> >>
> >> In comparison, Cisco allows you to take the CCIE over and over and over
> >> and requires no original contribution to the field of
> >> networking/security/voice/SP, etc. This is just to gain revenue and
> ensure
> >> Cisco skilled workers in IT worldwide.
> >>
> >> As I see it, the closest thing to a PhD Cisco has now is the CCAr. While
> >> Cisco's path to making and expanding this program has been rather
lengthy
> >> and slow, I do hope that they continue to push it. The Ar cannot be
> >> accomplished by just any testking and requires a defense. In addition it
> >> requires an initial response to questions, similar to comps, and they
> MUST
> >> be acceptable before moving on to the panel phase.
> >>
> >> So here's how I see it:
> >>
> >> Associates (2 years) - CCxA *
> >> Bachelors (4 years) - CCxP *
> >> Masters (6 years) - CCIE *
> >> PhD (8+ years) - CCAr
> >>
> >> Good luck in your studies!
> >>
> >> Travis
> >>
> >>
> >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
> >> Subscription information may be found at:
> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
> >
> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html

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Received on Sun Mar 04 2012 - 11:08:41 ART