Re: OT: CCIE != PhD

As long as if you have an understanding wife, that's all it matters.

Don.
Sent from my BlackBerry.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Aaron" <aaron1_at_gvtc.com>
Sender: nobody_at_groupstudy.com
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 22:38:03
To: 'Paul Negron'<negron.paul_at_gmail.com>; 'Radioactive Frog'<pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com>; 'Travis Niedens'<niedentj_at_hotmail.com>
Reply-To: "Aaron" <aaron1_at_gvtc.com>
Cc: <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
Subject: RE: OT: CCIE != PhD

Since Paul brought family into the discussion...allow me to expound on that
my feelings...

I was single (unmarried) when I attained a Bachelors in Computer Science
while holding a full time active career in the US Marines as a Staff
Sergeant.

I'm now married with 7 children and trying to get a CCIE. (I've also heard
college is very hard when you have a wife and children also)

I think this is one of the most difficult things I've ever done....try to
get a CCIE while being a full time Sr Net Eng, father and husband...

I think it would be one thing to attain the CCIE... but it's a whooole other
thing to cross the finish line of CCIE and have my wife and children proud
and happy for me, not resenting the CCIE that dad/hubby neglected them while
pursuing. Paul thanks for the reminder....I needed it.

I DO NOT want a CCIE if it means I have to be at odds with my wife, children
and others over it.

After all, when you are old and grey and perhaps breathing your last breath,
do you want to be surrounded at your bed side by a bunch of GS'ers!! Ha, no
of course not....you want the ones who you love (your family) around you....
I'll end with that.

Aaron

-----Original Message-----
From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Negron
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 8:49 PM
To: Radioactive Frog; Travis Niedens
Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: OT: CCIE != PhD

I've always said. You need to be able to take of your family at the end of
the day.Hopefully you can help take care of others as well. Everything else
is just a stroke job for your ego.

Paul

--
Paul Negron
CCIE# 14856 CCSI# 22752
Senior Technical Instructor
> From: Radioactive Frog <pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com>
> Reply-To: Radioactive Frog <pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 13:24:07 +1100
> To: Travis Niedens <niedentj_at_hotmail.com>
> Cc: <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> Subject: Re: OT: CCIE != PhD
> 
> Completely agreed with Travis.
> 
> Two completely different things.
> 
> With CCIE we're not inventing or doing anything new but just like a Chef
> show on the Tele.
> Who can cook, and how accurate it is.
> 
> I guess at the end what  really count is that your interest.
> The matter of the fact is that if you're really clever and have great idea
> to develop something, you should not do CCIE at all - go for PhD. (there
> would be an arguments that why do PhD if you've great ideas, inventive
> mind).
> 
> 
> However, if you're just doing a PhD without any great invention in mind
> (which most people do), then one would be better off with doing CCIE.
> 
> Remember CCIE pays more than PhD ::)
> 
> ccAr is definitely interesting.
> 
> 
> On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 3:46 PM, Travis Niedens <niedentj_at_hotmail.com>
wrote:
> 
>> I usually don't speak out about this stuff however I have noticed way too
>> many people comparing the CCIE to the PhD and quite frankly I find that
an
>> absurd comparison. Anyone who has worked on their Masters and PhD can
>> attest to the rigor that is required for the PhD as well as the process
>> involved and final goals. If you look at the CCIE it is a test that
>> encompasses:
>> 
>> - A CISCO specific technology line
>> - Each test set has a fixed set of possible exams that are updated and
>> swapped time to time to avoid cheating
>> - Only requires configuration and troubleshooting - again, heavy Cisco
>> specific focus
>> - Graded by a system, confirmed by a human
>> - 8 hours to prove that you have absorbed enough knowledge to configure
>> things the Cisco way
>> 
>> 
>> The PhD is not this at all, in fact the PhD's main goal is for the
student
>> to learn enough about their area of interest so they can build a thesis,
go
>> out and scientifically research it and then DEFEND it and add to the body
>> of human knowledge. While we all spend thousands of dollars, hundreds if
>> not thousands of hours in labs / working and hours weekly responding to
GS,
>> with the CCIE we are not creating anything new for the body of human
>> knowledge.  I don't say this lightly as I know the vendors work hard on
>> their materials however if you look at two of them side by side you will
>> see many of the same configurations as that's the way Cisco programmed
the
>> IOS parser to handle the magic.
>> 
>> There are key milestones in the PhD process / journey including:
>> 
>> - Research classes
>> - Academic writing classes
>> - Colloquia
>> - Comps
>> - Thesis Research
>> - Thesis Dissertation
>> - Thesis Defense
>> 
>> Keep in mind that most universities have a 2 times and then out policy -
>> thus meaning if you fail your comps or defense twice, you are out. You
have
>> just spent 10's of thousands of dollars and years on your thesis and
>> education and failed.
>> 
>> In comparison, Cisco allows you to take the CCIE over and over and over
>> and requires no original contribution to the field of
>> networking/security/voice/SP, etc. This is just to gain revenue and
ensure
>> Cisco skilled workers in IT worldwide.
>> 
>> As I see it, the closest thing to a PhD Cisco has now is the CCAr. While
>> Cisco's path to making and expanding this program has been rather lengthy
>> and slow, I do hope that they continue to push it. The Ar cannot be
>> accomplished by just any testking and requires a defense. In addition it
>> requires an initial response to questions, similar to comps, and they
MUST
>> be acceptable before moving on to the panel phase.
>> 
>> So here's how I see it:
>> 
>> Associates (2 years) - CCxA *
>> Bachelors (4 years) - CCxP *
>> Masters (6 years) - CCIE *
>> PhD (8+ years) - CCAr
>> 
>> Good luck in your studies!
>> 
>> Travis
>> 
>> 
>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> 
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> 
> 
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