Re: Company want CCIE, but they don't support my efforts

I agree 110%. I left a Cisco reseller that wanted me to get the CCIE, but
didn't want to pay for it.

The company was in financial distress and greatly enjoyed having me as an
employee.

I got a contracting gig and a big enough bump in pay to cover my training,
testing, build a rack, and go to Narbik's bootcamp.

Eventually, I will get my digits that won't associated with any company.
Then the ball is in my court!

On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Joe Astorino <joeastorino1982_at_gmail.com>wrote:

> I was in a similar situation. I will offer some advice, but remember it is
> worth what you paid for it : ) In 2008 I began studying hardcore for my
> lab
> exam. I went to my employer and put up a very reasonable argument as to
> why
> they would benefit from a CCIE on staff, and asked that they back me
> financially in that endeavor. I even wrote a page long letter to the CIO
> explaining the benefits and outlining the costs involved, etc.
>
> They essentially said "we want you focused on doing your job, not studying.
> A CCNP is all we need, and we won't pay for a CCIE." At that point I
> realized something important to me -- The company did not value technology
> and they did not value expertise in that area. If I did get my CCIE
> working
> there, it sure would not come with a raise. They also knew I would
> probably
> leave and go make more $ somewhere else.
>
> As soon as they said "that's nice but do it on your own time" I decided to
> start looking for another job. I set out to find a place that valued
> technology and valued high end certifications like the CCIE. Within a few
> months I got an offer working as a contractor for Cisco, along with a $25k
> increase....and I was still working on my CCIE.
>
> The point is this -- If they won't pay for it, they don't value it. Money
> talks. If they don't value what you are doing now, they won't value it
> when
> you get the CCIE either. They will also know you are valuable and it
> wouldn't surprise me if they are already trying to figure out how to
> replace
> you cheaper. Companies are ruthless. Look out for yourself, and start
> looking for a place that will support you in your dreams
>
> My 2 cents
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Radioactive Frog <pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Job hunt is the answer- find a company that is willing to pay your exam
> > cost. To be able to get this, I think you need to offer these type of
> > company more than just the "regular" skill-set.
> > Not just the RnS but like Vmware, security and other skill set upfront.
> >
> > $20k is huge.. buy shares and in 6 months they might go up by 50% :)
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 9:36 PM, Calin C. <calin_at_engineer.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks for your opinion,
> > >
> > > I don't feel that it's mandatory to attend a bootcamp. The work
> > environment
> > > is pretty challenging and combined with my spare time practice will be
> a
> > > pretty good hands-on support for my lab exam.
> > > The bootcamp came into discussion with my company as they inquire about
> > my
> > > ongoing preparation with CCIE.
> > > They didn't want to pay for my rack equipments (which I paid by my own)
> > so
> > > I've suggested them to pay for a bootcamp (the lower cost one, aprox.
> > 2.200
> > > euro).
> > >
> > > Reading your suggestions now, I took the decision to continue on my
> own,
> > > with my own rack and I'll buy the workbooks from a ccie training
> provider
> > (I
> > > don't want to give the name to start a flame discussion about which is
> > > best). I'll try the next 3 months to prepare hard and then if I'm not
> > happy
> > > with my progress I'll check for a bootcamp of 5 days (if there will be
> > any
> > > available in Europe, to reduce travel costs). I have no doubt that a
> > > bootcamp can add valuable know-how, but right now the above approach
> fit
> > > best my needs and the costs are acceptable.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Calin
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: farhan.anwar_at_gmail.com
> > > > Sent: 09/12/11 01:14 PM
> > > > To: shiran guez, Calin C.
> > > > Subject: Re: Company want CCIE, but they don't support my efforts
> > > >
> > > > Calin,
> > > >
> > > > I did my CCIE by utilising online bootcamps and mock labs that are
> > > offered from many vendors. Save on the travelling and hotel costs, take
> > the
> > > online bootcamp from your home, if you feel you need it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > HTH,
> > > >
> > > > Farhan Anwar
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my BlackBerryB. smartphone from du
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > >
> > > > From: shiran guez <shiranp3_at_gmail.com>
> > > >
> > > > Sender: nobody_at_groupstudy.com
> > > >
> > > > Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 12:43:03
> > > >
> > > > To: Calin C.<calin_at_engineer.com>
> > > >
> > > > Reply-To: shiran guez <shiranp3_at_gmail.com>
> > > >
> > > > Cc: <daniel.dib_at_reaper.nu>; <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> > > >
> > > > Subject: Re: Company want CCIE, but they don't support my efforts
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 20K Euro is a lot of money, a boot-camp will speed your process to
> > become
> > > a
> > > >
> > > > CCIE but is it worth 20K I think it depends who need it and how fast
> > when
> > > a
> > > >
> > > > Cisco Partner need a CCIE and he decide to promote one of his workers
> > he
> > > >
> > > > will send them to boot-camp because it is fast and he will get
> > > >
> > > > the investment back relativly fast, however if you personally doing
> it
> > I
> > > am
> > > >
> > > > not sure you are going to pay back your investment that fast.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have done my CCIE without boot-camp' in total including
> > > >
> > > > learning martial labs transatlantic flights 2 attempts and hotel's it
> > > cost
> > > >
> > > > me ~7000USD may be a little less.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > good luck
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Calin C. <calin_at_engineer.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hello Daniel,
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > "...but if
> > > >
> > > > > > B the CCIE does nothing for them..."
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Maybe I have to add some clarification. I'm being sold by my hiring
> > > company
> > > >
> > > > > as a consultant (or external partner) to other companies. Maybe I'm
> > not
> > > into
> > > >
> > > > > marketing stuff, but I think selling a CCIE worth more than selling
> a
> > > CCNP /
> > > >
> > > > > CCIP :)
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > So, event if they don't have a plan to go further on with Cisco
> > > >
> > > > > partnership, I think they will gain something from my increased
> > > knowledge.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks for reply!
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > > Calin
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >
> > > > > > From: daniel.dib_at_reaper.nu
> > > >
> > > > > > Sent: 09/12/11 11:02 AM
> > > >
> > > > > > To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> > > >
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Company want CCIE, but they don't support my efforts
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 04:09:08 -0400, Calin C. wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > I have here an ethical problem, more than a technical one and I
> > > said
> > > >
> > > > > > > to ask you guys, maybe somebody can give me an advice.
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > Scenario is the following.
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > For some time now I've been preparing for CCIE entirely on my
> own
> > > >
> > > > > > > costs (learning in my spare time, rack rental / equipment
> > > >
> > > > > > > acquisition,
> > > >
> > > > > > > exam fee, accomodation, travel...).I sit to an exam a while ago
> > > >
> > > > > > > (about
> > > >
> > > > > > > a year) and fail. Came back home and start preparing again.
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > Now I want to sit to another lab in some months and I was
> > thinking
> > > >
> > > > > > > that maybe a bootcamp will help. I've ask around some friends
> and
> > > one
> > > >
> > > > > > > of them confirmed that he was in a bootcamp (company name not
> > > >
> > > > > > > important, location Germany) and costs were about 20.000 euro (
> 3
> > > >
> > > > > > > weeks bootcamp, accomodation, travel...). This is a lot of
> money
> > > for
> > > >
> > > > > > > me and I was thinking to ask my company to support me. I've
> found
> > a
> > > >
> > > > > > > cheaper bootcamp (5 days around 2.200 euro + accomodation and
> > > travel,
> > > >
> > > > > > > let's say up to 3.500 euro). I've presented the above numbers
> to
> > my
> > > >
> > > > > > > company and their answer was that they are willing to support
> me,
> > > but
> > > >
> > > > > > > only for the efective cost of the exam itself.
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > Maybe it's important to say that I have other certifications
> > (CCNP,
> > > >
> > > > > > > CCIP, CXFS...) which are registered to my company for Cisco
> > > >
> > > > > > > partnership.
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > Finally we arrive to my issue:
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > I will keep on supporting my way to CCIE on my own costs (let's
> > say
> > > >
> > > > > > > that the 5 days bootcamp I could afford to pay by my own, or
> buy
> > > the
> > > >
> > > > > > > workbooks and practice on my own rack). I this case, my
> question
> > > is,
> > > >
> > > > > > > if I will get a CCIE number, this will be automatically
> assigned
> > to
> > > >
> > > > > > > the company that I'm registered with? I've tried to explain to
> > them
> > > >
> > > > > > > that if this is the case, I would find it a little bit unfair
> to
> > > use
> > > >
> > > > > > > my number. The cost of the exam itself is nothing compared to
> the
> > > >
> > > > > > > rest
> > > >
> > > > > > > of efforts.
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > Please don't get me wrong. I'm fully satisfied with the company
> > > that
> > > >
> > > > > > > I'm working on and I don't want to leave it. From financial and
> > > >
> > > > > > > social
> > > >
> > > > > > > perspective I'm happy with my position. I just want them to
> > > >
> > > > > > > understand
> > > >
> > > > > > > that nothing in life is free and CCIE comes with a costs that I
> > > have
> > > >
> > > > > > > to either recover somehow or they need to sponsor my efforts.
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > Any input will be appreciated (especially to my question about
> > CCIE
> > > >
> > > > > > > number - company relationship).
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for reading this long e-mail!
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > Calin
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > B Use the Partner Self Service tool available from the Partner
> > portal
> > > to
> > > >
> > > > > > B see if you are assigned to a company. If you are then I suppose
> > the
> > > >
> > > > > CCIE
> > > >
> > > > > > B will automatically be accredited to that company. Going to a
> 20k
> > > >
> > > > > > B bootcamp seems like a waste, many people do pass the lab
> without
> > a
> > > >
> > > > > > B bootcamp. If you want to go to one go for one that is for a
> week.
> > > That
> > > >
> > > > > > B should be enough. Does your company need your CCIE to acheive a
> > > certain
> > > >
> > > > > > B partner level? Maybe they don't and then they are not that
> > > interested
> > > >
> > > > > in
> > > >
> > > > > > B paying for it? They should still pay you for the competence and
> > > skills
> > > >
> > > > > > B you have achieved when becoming a CCIE through a higher salary
> > but
> > > if
> > > >
> > > > > > B the CCIE does nothing for them partnerwise maybe they are
> > reluctant
> > > to
> > > >
> > > > > > B pay costs for it. Just trying to get a grip of your situation.
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > B /Daniel
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > _______________________________________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > >
> > > > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > >
> > > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Shiran Guez
> > > >
> > > > MCSE CCNP NCE1 JNCIA-ENT JNCIS-ENT CCIE #20572
> > > >
> > > > http://cciep3.blogspot.com
> > > >
> > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/cciep3
> > > >
> > > > http://twitter.com/cciep3
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > >
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> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > > _______________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Joe Astorino
> CCIE #24347
> Blog: http://astorinonetworks.com
>
> "He not busy being born is busy dying" - Dylan
>
>
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>
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Received on Mon Sep 12 2011 - 11:52:55 ART