Re: Frame-relay again

R1 - FRsw - R2

Even with no LMI in one end, data can go throw from R1 to R2.

-Carlos

Narbik Kocharians @ 25/08/2010 20:56 -0300 dixit:
> Carlos,
>
> Our discussion here has nothing to do with Switch-Switch
> connection/communication or Route reflectors or the NAP so why confuse
> this gentlman. We are disabling the LMIs on the router and NOT the switch.
>
> It was a very basic question, you have R1 connecting to R2 through frame
> switch, if you disable LMIs on one end let's say R1, the status of the
> PVC will go into "inactive" state on R2.
>
> R1 will NOT get ANY DLCI information from the switch, even if you try to
> ping R1 from R2, R1 will NOT see any packets coming from R2 (Through its
> DLCI), so that tells me that the Switch is NOT forwarding packets to R1.
> Even if you configure a frame-relay map statically on R1 for R2's IP
> address.
>
> */you can switch and run no routing protocols, like when you do static
> routes./*
>
> When you configure a static route, are you NOT satisfying the control
> plane? You don't have to have a routing protocol like RIPv2, Eigrp or
> OSPF to have data-plane. *_In routing world_* (Old or New) if the
> control plane is NOT there you can NOT have the data plane to work.
> Trust me i have seen how the words and terms have changed through the
> years, i have been in this for the past 33 years. But they all mean the
> same.
>
> This gentlman asked a VERY simple question and he needs a very simple
> answer. When someone asks a question about the LMI exchange between his
> local router and the frame-relay switch, you are NOT going to explain
> Frame-to-ATM-Frame internetworking would you?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Carlos G Mendioroz <tron_at_huapi.ba.ar
> <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>> wrote:
>
> Oh my.
> A long long time ago people used to say that routers had two functions:
> they route (as in routing protocols) and switch (as in switching
> packets). New age terms seem to be control plane and data plane
> services.
>
> Fact is that you *can* do one without the other: you can switch and run
> no routing protocols, like when you do static routes. You can do routing
> and no switching, like a route reflector in a NAP.
>
> Back to frame relay, a frame relay switch main function is to do data
> plane switching services, copy frames from one link based on a xconnect
> table that maps a DLCI to some other link, possibly another DLCI.
> You don't need LMI up to do so. (Although in real life, I wonder why
> would you do such a thing).
>
> LMI runs on one DLCI to enable DTE to DCE control plane exchange.
> If you disable it, you can still make the FR switch to switch frames,
> some FR switches at least can do so.
>
> Am I talking nonsense ?
> -Carlos
>
> Narbik Kocharians @ 25/08/2010 20:05 -0300 dixit:
> > Carlos,
> >
> > If the LMIs are disabled (No keep) you won't talk to the Frame-relay
> > switch, if you are not communicating with the frame switch, it means
> > that you are not exchanging type 1 messages with Switch, nor
> > sending Type 0 messages to the switch and as a result of that you
> won't
> > get the DLCI info from the switch. So what do you mean the data plane
> > will work? If the control plane is NOT there, how could the data plane
> > work? and what do you mean by switching data plane services????
> Can you
> > be a little more clear?
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Kambiz Agahian
> <aussiecert_at_gmail.com <mailto:aussiecert_at_gmail.com>
> > <mailto:aussiecert_at_gmail.com <mailto:aussiecert_at_gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >
> > Just keep in mind that the FR world did exist before LMI and can
> > exist after that... :)
> >
> >
> >
> > Kambiz Agahian
> > CCIE Instructor/Consultant
> > M.Eng Telecom, CCIE# 25341, CCSI# 33326, MCSE, MCSA
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Carlos G Mendioroz
> > <tron_at_huapi.ba.ar <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>
> <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>>> wrote:
> >
> > You got me wrong there.
> > If you disable LMI, you loose pvc management (knowledge of
> what the
> > frame relay switch is doing and state of remote link) but
> you still
> > can have the switching (data plane) service.
> >
> > Problem is, if the remote end is paying attention to LMI, the
> > remote DTE
> > will consider the link down and you might loose connectivity.
> >
> > -Carlos
> >
> > Narbik Kocharians @ 25/08/2010 19:07 -0300 dixit:
> > > I agree with Carlos, if you disable the LMIs, then you are
> > saying i do
> > > not need the Frame-relay switching services, and
> connectivity
> > is lost,
> > > unless you configure the routers back to back which is NOT
> > what you are
> > > asking for. Paul's solution should do the trick, that's if i
> > understand
> > > your scenario correctly.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 1:11 PM, Carlos G Mendioroz
> > <tron_at_huapi.ba.ar <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>
> <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>>
> > > <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>
> <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>>>> wrote:
> > >
> > > basically you are saying that i don't need the switch
> > *management*
> > > any more.
> > >
> > > You still need its switching services :)
> > > -Carlos
> > > P.S.
> > > hahahaha
> > >
> > > Narbik Kocharians @ 25/8/2010 16:21 -0300 dixit:
> > >
> > > If you disable the LMIs, then, you are NOT going to
> > get any DLCI
> > > info from
> > > the switch, basically you are saying that i
> don't need the
> > > switch any more.
> > > But if this is what you want to do then, enter "NO
> > Keep" under your
> > > frame-relay interface. You typically do this
> when you
> > have a
> > > back to back
> > > frame-relay configuration without using the
> > Frame-relay switch.
> > > Is this what you wanted?
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 5:11 AM, selamat pagi
> > <ketimun_at_gmail.com <mailto:ketimun_at_gmail.com>
> <mailto:ketimun_at_gmail.com <mailto:ketimun_at_gmail.com>>
> > > <mailto:ketimun_at_gmail.com
> <mailto:ketimun_at_gmail.com> <mailto:ketimun_at_gmail.com
> <mailto:ketimun_at_gmail.com>>>>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Yep, disabled inverse arp and reloaded. This
> > clears out the
> > > mappings in *sh
> > > fram map.*
> > > However, the all the other pvc are still in *sh
> > frame pvc.*
> > >
> > > Carlos, how you disable LMI without changing
> config on
> > > FR-switch (keepalive
> > > is enable on FR-switch)
> > >
> > > cheers, keti
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Paul Negron
> > > <negron.paul_at_gmail.com
> <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>
> > <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com
> <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>> <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com
> <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>
> > <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com
> <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>>>>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Did you try disabling Inverse arp and
> > reloading the router?
> > >
> > > Paul
> > > --
> > > Paul Negron
> > > CCIE# 14856 CCSI# 22752
> > > Senior Technical Instructor
> > > www.micronicstraining.com
> <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> > <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> > > <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: selamat pagi
> <ketimun_at_gmail.com <mailto:ketimun_at_gmail.com>
> > <mailto:ketimun_at_gmail.com <mailto:ketimun_at_gmail.com>>
> > > <mailto:ketimun_at_gmail.com
> <mailto:ketimun_at_gmail.com>
> > <mailto:ketimun_at_gmail.com <mailto:ketimun_at_gmail.com>>>>
> > > Reply-To: selamat pagi
> <ketimun_at_gmail.com <mailto:ketimun_at_gmail.com>
> > <mailto:ketimun_at_gmail.com <mailto:ketimun_at_gmail.com>>
> > > <mailto:ketimun_at_gmail.com
> <mailto:ketimun_at_gmail.com>
> > <mailto:ketimun_at_gmail.com <mailto:ketimun_at_gmail.com>>>>
> > > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 20:07:44 +0200
> > > To: Cisco certification
> > <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>
> > > <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> > <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>>>
> > > Subject: Frame-relay again
> > >
> > > I know this has been discussed several
> > times here,
> > > but I still don't
> > > have/understand the solution.
> > > If there is none, I just will believe it
> > and can
> > > continue with
> > >
> > > something
> > >
> > > more interesting :-)
> > >
> > > QUESTION:
> > > Is there a way to avoid that the
> FR-switch
> > responds
> > > with all the DLCI
> > > configured ?
> > > So we will only see our configured
> PVC in
> > the output
> > > of "sh
> > >
> > > frame-relay
> > >
> > > pvc"
> > >
> > > (assumed the FR-switch config cannot be
> > changed ;-)
> > >
> > > I played around with keepalive and
> > > lmi-n391dte-values, however the
> > >
> > > type
> > >
> > > 0 I
> > >
> > > don't get rid of ..?
> > >
> > > thanks, keti
> > >
> > >
> > > Blogs and organic groups at
> > http://www.ccie.net <http://www.ccie.net/>
> <http://www.ccie.net/>
> > > <http://www.ccie.net/>
> > >
> > >
> >
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> _______________________________________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Carlos G Mendioroz <tron_at_huapi.ba.ar
> <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>
> > <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>>
> <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>
> > <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>>>>
> > > LW7 EQI Argentina
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Narbik Kocharians
> > > CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> > > www.MicronicsTraining.com
> <http://www.micronicstraining.com/> <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> > <http://www.MicronicsTraining.com
> <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> > <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>>
> > > Sr. Technical Instructor
> > > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
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> >
> > --
> > Carlos G Mendioroz <tron_at_huapi.ba.ar
> <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar> <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar
> <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>>>
> > LW7 EQI Argentina
> >
> >
> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> <http://www.ccie.net/>
> > <http://www.ccie.net/>
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Narbik Kocharians
> > CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> > www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> <http://www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>>
> > Sr. Technical Instructor
> > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > Training And Remote Racks available
>
> --
> Carlos G Mendioroz <tron_at_huapi.ba.ar <mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>>
> LW7 EQI Argentina
>
>
>
>
> --
> Narbik Kocharians
> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.MicronicsTraining.com>
> Sr. Technical Instructor
> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> Training And Remote Racks available

-- 
Carlos G Mendioroz  <tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>  LW7 EQI  Argentina
Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net