RE: Written Exam and troubleshooting

>>" My personal opinion is that when you become proficient at
troubleshooting, the technologies are not as important.

Tyson, probably you're not aware of the number of teams at Cisco TAC. It
takes 3-6 months for an experienced well trained CCIE to move from one
team to another (even similar technologies).

--------------------------
Kambiz Agahian
CCIE (R&S), CCSI, WAASSE, RSSSE
Technical Instructor
CCBOOTCAMP - Cisco Learning Solutions Partner (CLSP)
Email: kagahian_at_ccbootcamp.com
Toll Free: 877-654-2243
International: +1-702-968-5100
Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
FAX: +1-702-446-8012
YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Tyson Scott
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 9:55 PM
To: 'Bernard Steven'; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: Written Exam and troubleshooting

Bernard,

My personal opinion is that when you become proficient at
troubleshooting,
the technologies are not as important. I think your point is the
complaint
of many people. "Why are we paying big bucks for a CCIE that can't
troubleshoot an issue???". That is almost a verbatim quote from an
individual with one of the fortune 50 companies I used to work with in
relation to another individual. I don't think being a CCIE makes you a
master of anything to be truthful. A CCIE simply shows that you have
learned a lot of technologies well enough to pass a test. Just like
obtaining a degree shows that you have the determination to stick with
something to the end.

For me it has continued to amaze me as I have achieved my first CCIE;
and
now three (hopefully 4 pretty soon), how very little I know. There is
so
much to know that becoming a CCIE is just a rise in the journey. It is
not
the summit.

Regards,
 
Tyson Scott - CCIE #13513 R&S, Security, and SP
Managing Partner / Sr. Instructor - IPexpert, Inc.
Mailto: tscott_at_ipexpert.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Bernard Steven
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:34 AM
To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: Written Exam and troubleshooting

Do you guys really think that the troubleshooting skill could be
measured
with the TS LAB ? The pressure in the LAB is 1400$.In real world , when
the
customer and your boss are involved and your job and credibility are in
line
, the pressure is high.
I have worked with few experienced non ccie guys who are excellent in
troubleshooting complex issues.

My point is , being a CCIE does not make you good at troubleshooting.

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 5:48 AM, Tyson Scott <tscott_at_ipexpert.com>
wrote:

> I guess you are saying you don't know. Although to me it's not a
topic
> worth debating either.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kambiz Agahian [mailto:kagahian_at_ccbootcamp.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:05 PM
> To: Tyson Scott; Ernest McCaleb
> Cc: Travis Niedens; abrayton_at_gmail.com; john.lockie_at_gmail.com;
> charles.t.alexander_at_verizon.net; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: Written Exam and troubleshooting
>
> I guess you need a little bit bandwidth shaping in this case :)
>
>
> --------------------------
> Kambiz Agahian
> CCIE (R&S), CCSI, WAASSE, RSSSE
> Technical Instructor
> CCBOOTCAMP - Cisco Learning Solutions Partner (CLSP)
> Email: kagahian_at_ccbootcamp.com
> Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> International: +1-702-968-5100
> Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf
Of
> Tyson Scott
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 4:26 PM
> To: Kambiz Agahian; 'Ernest McCaleb'
> Cc: 'Travis Niedens'; abrayton_at_gmail.com; john.lockie_at_gmail.com;
> charles.t.alexander_at_verizon.net; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: Written Exam and troubleshooting
>
> I guess I would invite you, being with the 360 program, to talk with
the
> CCIE team and find out more as to why they feel it helps in this
regard.
> I
> am not going to debate a statement that comes from the program
> themselves.
> Sounds like there needs to be a little more communication between the
> 360
> program and the CCIE team ;).
>
> Regards,
>
> Tyson Scott - CCIE #13513 R&S, Security, and SP
> Managing Partner / Sr. Instructor - IPexpert, Inc.
> Mailto: tscott_at_ipexpert.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kambiz Agahian [mailto:kagahian_at_ccbootcamp.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 7:18 PM
> To: Tyson Scott; Ernest McCaleb
> Cc: Travis Niedens; abrayton_at_gmail.com; john.lockie_at_gmail.com;
> charles.t.alexander_at_verizon.net; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: Written Exam and troubleshooting
>
> You can spend your BW on the second guess :)
>
> HTH
>
>
> --------------------------
> Kambiz Agahian
> CCIE (R&S), CCSI, WAASSE, RSSSE
> Technical Instructor
> CCBOOTCAMP - Cisco Learning Solutions Partner (CLSP)
> Email: kagahian_at_ccbootcamp.com
> Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> International: +1-702-968-5100
> Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf
Of
> Tyson Scott
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:07 PM
> To: Kambiz Agahian; 'Ernest McCaleb'
> Cc: 'Travis Niedens'; abrayton_at_gmail.com; john.lockie_at_gmail.com;
> charles.t.alexander_at_verizon.net; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: Written Exam and troubleshooting
>
> This is really a question? Are you trying to qualify the word stop
from
> Ernest or are you saying that troubleshooting doesn't help to deter
> cheating? Now I am curious.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Tyson Scott - CCIE #13513 R&S, Security, and SP
>
> Managing Partner / Sr. Instructor - IPexpert, Inc.
>
> Mailto: <mailto:tscott_at_ipexpert.com> tscott_at_ipexpert.com
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Kambiz Agahian [mailto:kagahian_at_ccbootcamp.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 5:49 PM
> To: Ernest McCaleb; Tyson Scott
> Cc: Travis Niedens; abrayton_at_gmail.com; john.lockie_at_gmail.com;
> charles.t.alexander_at_verizon.net; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: Written Exam and troubleshooting
>
>
>
> I'm out of this discussion but just out of curiosity; how would that
> stop
> cheating?
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------
>
> Kambiz Agahian
>
> CCIE (R&S), CCSI, WAASSE, RSSSE
>
> Technical Instructor
>
> CCBOOTCAMP - Cisco Learning Solutions Partner (CLSP)
>
> Email: kagahian_at_ccbootcamp.com
>
> Toll Free: 877-654-2243
>
> International: +1-702-968-5100
>
> Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
>
> FAX: +1-702-446-8012
>
> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>
> Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Ernest McCaleb [mailto:emccaleb_at_gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 2:42 PM
> To: Tyson Scott
> Cc: Travis Niedens; abrayton_at_gmail.com; Kambiz Agahian;
> john.lockie_at_gmail.com; charles.t.alexander_at_verizon.net;
> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Written Exam and troubleshooting
>
>
>
> Troubleshooting has been on the lab in one way or another since the
> 2day.
> Perhaps Adrian was unaware of that. I too believe it was to stop the
> cheaters.
>
> Ernest
>
> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Tyson Scott <tscott_at_ipexpert.com>
> wrote:
>
> Travis/Adrian,
>
> Don't take it too personally between each other. I don't think either
> of
> you wanted it to be an argument.
>
> Adrian used to be a support engineer here at IPexpert. Often when he
> would
> get the most basic questions I would say "See you could study for your
> CCIE
> too." Well... here we are... and he is doing it.
>
> I also used to work for Cisco in advanced services, and often high end
> engineers would be hung up on the most basic tasks when
troubleshooting
> came
> into play. So... yes... too many, attempting to achieve the CCIE and
> sometimes even CCIE's, lack the skill of good solid troubleshooting.
> Don't
> take offense. I don't think it is intended that way, nor is it
> specifically
> pointed towards you. But it is a fact and it helps everyone in
> understanding a part of the reason it was put on the lab exam. The
> second
> reason is it is really hard to cheat on troubleshooting tasks if you
are
> not
> familiar with the technologies. At least this is my 2 cents on
> troubleshooting.
>
> Jack,
>
> If you feel that you are just memorizing the troubleshooting tasks
that
> came
> with the vendors workbook you are working on then it may be a good
idea
> to
> focus more on configuration for the time and then get a few other
vendor
> workbooks for troubleshooting. I know most of the vendors should have
> some
> good troubleshooting labs by this time.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tyson Scott - CCIE #13513 R&S, Security, and SP
> Managing Partner / Sr. Instructor - IPexpert, Inc.
> Mailto: tscott_at_ipexpert.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf
Of
>
> Travis Niedens
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 5:12 PM
> To: abrayton_at_gmail.com
> Cc: kagahian_at_ccbootcamp.com; john.lockie_at_gmail.com;
> charles.t.alexander_at_verizon.net; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>
> Subject: RE: Written Exam and troubleshooting
>
> It has nothing to do with insecurity but rather the fact that you are
> being
> absolutely rude for no reason. Did I slander the group of CCIEs on
here
> ?
> No,
> you did. Did I claim to know why Cisco added troubleshooting back in?
> No,
> you
> did. If you recall they did used to have troubleshooting on the 2 Day
> format
> however it was a different format.
>
>
>
> So, what's your ccie number?
>
>
>
> Travis
>
> > Subject: Re: Written Exam and troubleshooting
> > From: abrayton_at_gmail.com
> > Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 16:47:56 -0400
> > CC: kagahian_at_ccbootcamp.com; john.lockie_at_gmail.com;
> charles.t.alexander_at_verizon.net; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> > To: niedentj_at_hotmail.com
> >
> > I was expecting a few insecure individual's to write something like
> you
> have.
> > I meant it 100% and I didn't say every CCIE on here, I said MOST! I
> also
> > didn't say it as a bad thing, just something that most lacked. Just
> because
> > someone has a CCIE number, by no means doe's that indicate that
> individual
> has
> > any skill in troubleshooting?
> >
> > Do you really think that Cisco brought back the Troubleshooting
> portion
> just
> > because they didn't have anything better to do? Please with all of
> your
> > infinite wisdom, enlighten us on why you think they invested all
that
> money
> to
> > bring back the troubleshooting portion of the lab!
> >
> >
> >
> > On May 25, 2010, at 3:45 PM, Travis Niedens wrote:
> >
> > > "most of the ccies on this list don't have the skills needed to be
> good
> at
> > troubleshooting" ..... Did you seriously just send that out and
> actually
> mean
> > it? Have you personally evaluated the troubleshooting skills of
every
> ccie
> on
> > here? Who are you to evaluate even? Did Cisco give you this great
> nugget
> of
> > knowledge and you just couldn't help but sharing it with us? A very
> lame
> > comment indeed. what's your ccie #? Travis
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Adrian Brayton
> > > Sent: 5/25/2010 7:30:58 PM
> > > To: Kambiz Agahian
> > > Cc: John Lockie , Charles T. Alexander , ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: Re: Written Exam and troubleshooting
> > > A decent book is "Troubleshooting IP Routing Protocols", you can
> find it
> on
> > E-Bay...
> > >
> > > Just remember that troubleshooting is not something that you can
> just
> read
> > and be done with it... Its a methodology in how you approach things!
> Most
> of
> > the CCIE's on this list don't have the skill's needed to be good at
> > troubleshooting thus the reason that Cisco brought it back to the
lab.
> You
> > wont get the skill from just working on labs either as I had
thought,
> you
> need
> > to practice it just as you would any other topic on the lab.
> > >
> > > As I had said before, it might only be 25% of the lab but it's 50%
> of
> the
> > exam!
> > >
> > > Good Luck!
> > >
> > >
> > > On May 25, 2010, at 2:50 PM, Kambiz Agahian wrote:
> > >
> > > > Charles,
> > > >
> > > > Believe it or not but I see a great chance of success for the
> students
> > > > with failed written attempts on their lab exams! Why? Because
> you're
> > > > truly doing your best, taking the test and what you've got is
> exactly
> > > > what you ran for. Now you know your weaknesses "truly". Frankly,
> That's
> > > > why you see all those folks with the written 1000/1000 and stuck
> on
> > > > their 5th lab attempt. You're not going to be one of them.
> > > >
> > > > Please don't feel discouraged; you're on the right track mate.
> > > >
> > > > We do have a written workbook with heaps of questions - that may
> help;
> > > > you might wish to give it a shot but anyway you're now building
> your
> lab
> > > > foundation and not just wasting your time - not a problem.
> > > >
> > > > HTH
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------
> > > > Kambiz Agahian
> > > > CCIE (R&S), CCSI, WAASSE, RSSSE
> > > > Technical Instructor
> > > > CCBOOTCAMP - Cisco Learning Solutions Partner (CLSP)
> > > > Email: kagahian_at_ccbootcamp.com
> > > > Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> > > > International: +1-702-968-5100
> > > > Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> > > > FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> > > > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > > > Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On
> Behalf
> Of
> > > > John Lockie
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:34 AM
> > > > To: Charles T. Alexander; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Written Exam and troubleshooting
> > > >
> > > > Another argument for doing lab prep only, and then taking the
> written
> > > > only
> > > > when you are ready for the lab (or feel ready) :-)
> > > >
> > > > Regarding books, this probably depends on what you are looking
to
> > > > troubleshoot!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 5/25/10 11:20 AM, "Charles T. Alexander"
> > > > <charles.t.alexander_at_verizon.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I failed the written exam. I have read all the usual books such
> as
> > > > Odom.
> > > >> The exam really has a lot more troubleshooing, or at least that
> is my
> > > >> take on it. Is there a good book(s) on this?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
>
Received on Tue May 25 2010 - 22:13:48 ART