Re: MPLS CE, PE definition

Kambiz, that is just your opinion. It all depends what exactly you are talking about. You just validated what I said by listing several reasons why BGP could be more flexible. I could write you a 500 word essay on why BGP is more flexible too but I won't do that.

At the end of the day nobody is right or wrong. BGP could be more flexible for your company depending on what the requirements are. That is all

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Regards,

 Joe Astorino - CCIE #24347
Sr. Technical Instructor - IPexpert
Mailto: jastorino_at_ipexpert.com
Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
Live Assistance, Please visit: www.ipexpert.com/chat
eFax: +1.810.454.0130

IPexpert is a premier provider of Self-Study Workbooks, Video on Demand, Audio Tools, Online Hardware Rental and Classroom Training for the Cisco CCIE (R&S, Voice, Security & Service Provider) certification(s) with training locations throughout the United States, Europe, South Asia and Australia. Be sure to visit our online communities at www.ipexpert.com/communities and our public website at www.ipexpert.com

-----Original Message-----
From: "Kambiz Agahian" <kagahian_at_ccbootcamp.com>
Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 20:22:31
To: Joe Astorino<jastorino_at_ipexpert.com>; Jack Router<pan.router_at_gmail.com>
Cc: <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
Subject: RE: MPLS CE, PE definition

Joe,

It's actually less flexible and more resource intensive ;-) but it does
offer a couple of major advantages.

Different carriers use different CE-PE routing protocols and if you
interview them you will hear a bunch of different reasons. In the US,
you see the exact same thing. This is somehow like the famous "OSPF or
IS-IS" question...both have their own fans.

But what sort of flexibility do you ever need to have between 2 hops?

If you talk to those who are big BGP fans as a CE-PE they'd mostly talk
about the "built-in redistribution" feature (absolutely true) but at the
cost of slower convergence. I've heard some other reasons like "we only
need to hire BGP guys then!" etc.

But what sort of convergence?

As an MPLS SP the only thing that I care about is a reliable, easy to
set up, configure and tshoot link as my PE-CE but as a customer probably
you're seeking some more vital features like "what if my primary link
goes down?", "what if I want to switch over to a SP2 if SP1 is down?",
"what if the IP SLA for jitter keeps complaining and I prefer to route
through SP2?" etc. well, BGP does do the job but not necessarily in the
grace period of time mandated by your critical applications like Call
managers and public servers.

Does SP1 care?
Probably they don't, especially in the markets that you see some sort of
natural monopoly. But I know some service providers working on this now.

In theory, there are heaps of different options to improve this
experience but at the end of the day you as a customer have to deal with
their sluggish BGP behavior.

Juniper is actively working on this, and Cisco does have some
features...but anyway our SP's are far behind; we're talking about a
massive hardware/software upgrade especially if the feature needs to be
configured on both ends.

Cheers,

--------------------------
Kambiz Agahian
CCIE (R&S), CCSI, WAASSE, RSSSE
Technical Instructor
CCBOOTCAMP - Cisco Learning Solutions Partner (CLSP)
Email: kagahian_at_ccbootcamp.com
Toll Free: 877-654-2243
International: +1-702-968-5100
Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
FAX: +1-702-446-8012
YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Joe Astorino
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 6:14 PM
To: Jack Router
Cc: Kambiz Agahian; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: MPLS CE, PE definition

PS -- I used to work for a large international company with a global
MPLS environment. It was much like what you are describing -- managed
CE routers that ran BGP to the PE routers. We had only read access on
the managed CE routers. Unfortunately, all of our sites relied
basically on static routing (sigh) so on the CE router they basically
just advertised those static routes into BGP. Similarly, in your
setup the CE router probably learns a bunch of EIGRP routes and they
likely just advertise them into BGP with the network command....or
maybe redistribute depending on what exactly they want to accomplish.

On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Joe Astorino <jastorino_at_ipexpert.com>
wrote:
> BGP makes it easier and more flexible for your provider. Many
> providers are not going to run an IGP with you at all, and that is
> what you are seeing. Not having at least read only access to their
> managed router is kind of ridiculous though...but that is a business
> decision that likely needs negotiated (AKA Layer 8 problem) : )
>
> On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 8:45 PM, Jack Router <pan.router_at_gmail.com>
wrote:
>> Thanks to all for explanations.
>>
>> What is the benefit of running separate CE-PE protocol, instead of
running
>> my EIGRP up to the PE ?
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kambiz Agahian [mailto:kagahian_at_ccbootcamp.com]
>> Sent: 1-May-10 19:52
>> To: Ryan West; Jack Router
>> Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>> Subject: RE: MPLS CE, PE definition
>>
>> Ryan,
>>
>> That box is a pure "managed CE".
>>
>> When they say BGP they don't mean MP-BGP, more than likely they just
>> mean BGP (the CE-PE routing protocol). So probably what you see is
>> something like this: EIGRP <-> BGP <-> MP-BGP <-> BGP <-> EIGRP.
>>
>> You can bother them by asking about the best convergence time they
can
>> offer with their BGP MPLS peer :-D and then ask them to offer BFD on
top
>> of that!
>>
>>
>> HTH
>>
>>
>> --------------------------
>> Kambiz Agahian
>> CCIE (R&S), CCSI, WAASSE, RSSSE
>> Technical Instructor
>> CCBOOTCAMP - Cisco Learning Solutions Partner (CLSP)
>> Email: kagahian_at_ccbootcamp.com
>> Toll Free: 877-654-2243
>> International: +1-702-968-5100
>> Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
>> FAX: +1-702-446-8012
>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>> Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf
Of
>> Ryan West
>> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 8:09 AM
>> To: Jack Router
>> Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>> Subject: Re: MPLS CE, PE definition
>>
>> CE implies no locally running MPLS and not neccessarily customer
>> controlled.
>>
>> Sent from handheld.
>>
>> On May 1, 2010, at 10:58 AM, "Jack Router" <pan.router_at_gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> We have an MPLS service managed by a provider. They have a router on
>>> our
>>> location and call it a CE. We do not have access to it. When I asked
>>> to show
>>> me the config they refused because this router runs BGP and contains
>>> confidential information. Provider confirmed that this router
>>> redistributes
>>> our EIGRP into their BGP. By my definition this is a PE even if
>>> located in
>>> our location, or am I missing something ?
>>> Thank,
>>>
>>>
>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>
>>>
>>
Received on Sun May 02 2010 - 03:37:13 ART