RE: WCCP and WAEs

Well, IMHO a data center is a facility owned by a company which can be an
enterprise network by itself (dont to be mixed up with SP). WAAS and
Stealhdead are used between a data center and sites connected back to it.
Moreover, all WAN optimization technologies are sold under the data center
category and they are data center technologies. When it comes to different
types of customers a SP network is quite different to an enterprise network -
CORRECT - but both can enjoy WAN optimization.

I am not trying to make this too salesy but whenever you have a packet I see
an opportunity to save some bits.

--------------------------
Kambiz Agahian
CCIE (R&S)
CCSI, WAASSE, RSSSE
Technical Instructor
CCBOOTCAMP - Cisco Learning Solutions Partner (CLSP)
Email: kagahian_at_ccbootcamp.com
Toll Free: 877-654-2243
International: +1-702-968-5100
Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
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-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos G Mendioroz [mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar]
Sent: Fri 4/9/2010 12:10 PM
To: Kambiz Agahian
Cc: Group Study; Cisco certification; Group Study
Subject: Re: WCCP and WAEs

Dear,
you certainly are making this more and more involved.
AFAIK, WAAS is more an enterprise than a DC solution, although there
are large enterprises that do benefit from DC design guides.
But the question at hand was especific of WCCP groups, so no inline,
no PBR, no ACE. (And AFAIK, WCCP is preferred to PBR in cisco view)

I'm not contending that best practices do not say what you reiterate.
I was trying to explain why those recomendations would be done.
Again, at the expert level you should know why you do things, not
only what you are supposed to do.
Your adding the exclude thing is also very involved, and unrelated to
the first question. You forgot to mention distributed data centers and
GSS as well :) I'd rather get into L2 and IP redirect WCCP adyacencies
which is more interesting, but arquitecture dependent.

-Carlos

Kambiz Agahian @ 9/04/2010 15:35 -0300 dixit:
> Carlos,
>
> Long story.
> Very briefly you can design a WAN optimization solution in 4 different
ways:
>
> 1- Inline
> 2- ACE module in a 6500 / ACE box
> 3- PBR
> 4- WCCP v.2
>
> Is there any set of best practices; certainly there is. Have you ever heard
of
> a Cisco certified DC design? that's what the company and its advanced
services
> department are pushing very hard. Based on all those good things (if they
are)
> if you're going to go down the last path (which is recommended if you dont
> have an ACE module or your design does need it) then the best practices say
> what I told you.
>
> Q1- What's going to happen if you don't like them or you just want not to
> follow them?
>
> Well, it depends. If you play with 61 and 62 and you have a small to medium
> site probably the difference is not significant but if you fail to place
them
> at the right point and you have a massive DC with hundreds of sites hanging
> off it then you will run into some performance (load balancing) issues. My
> recommendation? lots of hands on WCCP experience plus a decent budget to
> choose the best between ACE and WCCP.
>
> Q2- Is there any fear of "routing loop" issues when running WCCP when
you're
> not following the best practices?
>
> Yes there is. Especially if your design forces you to use the "out"
direction
> and not the "in" option (or wrong 61/62 placing) then you have to use the
> "exclude" feature to make sure you're not sending and receiving packets as
a
> part of a loop.
>
> Q3- One or more than one WAAS boxes?
> Even if you have only one it's recommended to follow some design best
> practices...see Q.2
>
> I'll post more to our blog.
> HTH,
>
> --------------------------
> Kambiz Agahian
> CCIE (R&S)
> CCSI, WAASSE, RSSSE
> Technical Instructor
> CCBOOTCAMP - Cisco Learning Solutions Partner (CLSP)
> Email: kagahian_at_ccbootcamp.com
> Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> International: +1-702-968-5100
> Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carlos G Mendioroz [mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar]
> Sent: Fri 4/9/2010 10:59 AM
> To: Kambiz Agahian
> Cc: Group Study; Cisco certification
> Subject: Re: WCCP and WAEs
>
> That sounds like you are making something quite simple look like
> something more involved.
>
> "The nature of this services" is just what they use as hash input.
> One uses source IP,the other destination IP.
>
> The hash output just decides which WAE is going to get the packet.
> (hash maps get recalculated with WCCP registration, but this is just
> getting into nitty gritty).
>
> As I said, if you only have one WAE, all this is irrelevant (although
> it can be confusing if someone who does not know what's going on, looks
> at the configuration, and there's always the possiblity of someone
> adding another WAE afterwards).
>
> Oh well, being this a CCIE list, I like facts being discussed, concepts
> being presented and sane discussions take place. I don't like recipes
> that much :) If you are working on an article on this, why not sharing
> the bits on a preview here ? :)
>
> -Carlos
>
> Kambiz Agahian @ 9/04/2010 14:44 -0300 dixit:
>> It's due to the nature of these two services and the way they handle
>> load distribution.
>>
>> We're working on an article to explain how to design an optimized WAN
>> based on best practices. I'll post it to CCBOOTCAMP forum or blog in
>> very near future.
>>
>>
>> --------------------------
>> Kambiz Agahian
>> CCIE (R&S)
>> CCSI, WAASSE, RSSSE
>> Technical Instructor
>> CCBOOTCAMP - Cisco Learning Solutions Partner (CLSP)
>> Email: kagahian_at_ccbootcamp.com
>> Toll Free: 877-654-2243
>> International: +1-702-968-5100
>> Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
>> FAX: +1-702-446-8012
>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>> Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Carlos G Mendioroz [mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar]
>> Sent: Fri 4/9/2010 9:02 AM
>> To: Kambiz Agahian
>> Cc: Group Study; Cisco certification
>> Subject: Re: WCCP and WAEs
>>
>> Would you please share why is that ? Or is it sort of black magic ? :)
>>
>> I would agree that if you have very few IP addresses on either side,
>> and you have more than one WAE to choose from, then I would base the
>> hash on the side that actually has many IPs, for the sake of having a
>> smooth distribution.
>>
>> Is there any other thing that has to be accounted at design time ?
>>
>> -Carlos
>>
>> P.S.
>> Original question was if the assignment was related (branch/central).
>> Technically it is not, from the above design point of view, it is,
>> and the original setting makes sense, because if you have more clients
>> than servers, it makes sense to hash on clients, which are LAN side
>> at the branch and WAN side at central.
>>
>>
>> Kambiz Agahian @ 9/04/2010 12:19 -0300 dixit:
>>> Hi there,
>>>
>>> This is a design issue. Based on the best practices in small to medium
>> size
>>> sites 61 goes on the internal interface and 62 is configured on the
>> external
>>> interface; however IF you have a data center with many servers behind
>>> (logically not physically) the WAAS then 62 inside and 61 outside.
>>>
>>> Does it make sense?
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------
>>> Kambiz Agahian
>>> CCIE (R&S)
>>> CCSI, WAASSE, RSSSE
>>> Technical Instructor
>>> CCBOOTCAMP - Cisco Learning Solutions Partner (CLSP)
>>> Email: kagahian_at_ccbootcamp.com
>>> Toll Free: 877-654-2243
>>> International: +1-702-968-5100
>>> Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
>>> FAX: +1-702-446-8012
>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>> Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com on behalf of Group Study
>>> Sent: Fri 4/9/2010 5:52 AM
>>> To: Cisco certification
>>> Subject: OT: WCCP and WAEs
>>>
>>> question about Service 61 and 62.
>>>
>>> On the remote site, I have 61 on the LAN interface and 62 on the WAN
>>> interface. Does it matter that I have 61 on the WAN interface on the
>>> Data Center Router and 62 on the LAN? Effectively the opposite of the
>>> remote site?
>>>
>>> I would think it does since 61 is based on Source and 62 on
Destination...
>>>
>>>
>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Carlos G Mendioroz <tron_at_huapi.ba.ar> LW7 EQI Argentina
>>
>
> --
> Carlos G Mendioroz <tron_at_huapi.ba.ar> LW7 EQI Argentina
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
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--
Carlos G Mendioroz  <tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>  LW7 EQI  Argentina
Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net