Re: Narbik's Service Provider & Security bootcamp - The wait is from olukolade_at_gmail.com on 2010-01-17 (Ccielab archives 01/2010)

From: <olukolade_at_gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 20:53:00 +0000

My opinion. I think this last mail from wayne lawson is petty and uncalled for. Disappointing from someone in his position. No need to insult.
Sent from my BlackBerry. wireless handheld from Glo Mobile.

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Lawson <groupstudy_at_ipexpert.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 14:28:55
To: Narbik Kocharians<narbikk_at_gmail.com>
Cc: Itechguru<wajid.ccie_at_gmail.com>; Nadeem Rafi<nrafia_at_gmail.com>; Scott Morris<smorris_at_ine.com>; Marko Milivojevic<markom_at_ipexpert.com>; kaushalccie patel<kaushalccie_at_gmail.com>; Ron Lim<gottobeccie_at_gmail.com>; Cisco certification<ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
Subject: Re: Narbik's Service Provider & Security bootcamp - The wait is
over!!!

Narbik

You're entitled to your opinion - and I can respect it as your
own opinion, but I don't fully agree with it - and I probably never
will - so there's no sense arguing with me. Hopefully this doesn't
cause your blood pressure to rise and for you to begin sending
abrasive emails to me again.

It's my opinion (agreeing with Scott Morris) that potential
clients can get the information you outlined in your email below (plus
more information that's needed in order to make an intelligent,
informed decision) off of vendor websites, blogs and support forums.
Potential clients can also call and ask questions while speaking with
a customer service rep, support engineer or Training Advisor. The
main message that I attempted to relay (which seemed to go right over
your head) - was that many vendors use fake email accounts to bash
other vendors - pretty lame sales / marketing tactic, I know - but it
happens). My main point was to still collect the information needed /
wanted - but to get it from legitimate resources - not an email list
where there's no verification of identity (please re-read my original
email if you need further clarification on what I was suggesting).

I would see why you disagree with my ideas - simply because you
don't have most of these resources. I don't think you have (or use) a
blog, support forum, support list, support engineers, customer service
reps or training advisors - therefore - I guess it makes sense for
your customers to collect information from a mailing list (that's what
I, and other vendors, relied on when we were 2-man shops - and didn't
have a solid corporate infrastructure). I'm also pretty sure you
don't have the ability to provide factual information (documented)
supporting many of your claims. If I'm wrong, please accept my
apologies.

With that being said, I still believe that most people can
collect better, factual information if they apply logical tactics and
speak with every vendor directly - as well as speak directly to people
who have industry experience and / or have used various products that
are available, and on the market, today.

Please note - these are only my opinions. I don't have time, nor
do I wish to argue my opinions over yours. If you don't agree - I can
respect that - we'll just have to agree to disagree! ;-)

Regards,

Wayne A. Lawson II - CCIE #5244
Founder & President - IPexpert
Mailto: wlawson_at_ipexpert.com
Telephone: +1.810.326.1444, ext. 101
Live Assistance, Please visit: www.ipexpert.com/chat
eFax: +1.810.454.0130

::Message sent from iPhone::

On Jan 17, 2010, at 2:04 PM, Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
wrote:

> I believe that members of this forum should know the good, bad and
> the ugly side of the vendors before they join. They should know what
> is available and who is offering what classes. How else would these
> members know that???????????????????
> If a member does not like to receive these e-mails, he/she can
> delete them based on their subject. If i do not care about SNA and/
> or DLSW, i will simply ignore or delete them. no one i know is
> interested in every subject that goes on here.
> BUT I don't beleive that any of the vendors have gone overboard as
> far as advertisements.
> What is wrong with what Nadeem said, or what Ron mentioned, why
> quickly come back and make a comment? would these 1, 2, 3 or 4 star
> Generals make a comment if the subject was about their classes or
> products? I bet NOT.
> There are lots of GR8 technical discussions here in GS and members
> help other members on regular basis, IT DOES NOT hurt to know what
> the vendors offer.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Wayne Lawson <groupstudy_at_ipexpert.com
> > wrote:
> This is an 11-year+ problem that has never been resolved (or
> should I say "agreed upon"). I'm pretty sure Brad, Scott, Brian,
> Narbik and I have all seen / addressed this a few dozen times!
> See....some vendors, in the past, have used hotmail and gmail
> addresses as "ghost customers". These "fake people" bash other
> vendors and make false statements about products, instructors and
> competition on GS.
>
> There's also the problem with certain vendors promoting their
> products or even getting into battles with other vendors /
> instructors (note: this is much different than supporting products -
> when I say "promoting" I mean posting information about a product -
> using GS to gain visibility with the hope to sell something or
> solicit customers. However, there's also the question - can I post
> a "freebie" - and is that "promoting" - the verdict is still out
> depending on who posts it and who you ask). It's unfortunate - but
> a large portion of the GS community is gullable and takes everything
> posted here as "the truth". So - ultimately - I agree with Scott
> (don't use this list to make your decision - go directly to each
> vendor and make an informed decision.
>
> As a potential customer - I would *hope* that buyers contact
> each vender directly. Ask them what you want to know - and ask for
> referrals and / or proof of what they're telling you. Look at key
> indicators like how many people they've helped pass (ask for
> referrals and check out their testimonials and "wall of fame"), ask
> how up-to-date their products are (ask for samples), ask about their
> online racks (ask for a sample / test voucher), ask about support
> (then join their support communities and monitor it), ask how
> refunds, retakes and updates are handled - and get it in writing, go
> to the local Cisco Users Group - or call your peers / people you may
> know who are studying for the lab (and get their opinions) - and so
> on.
>
> This decision is usually one of the biggest decisions you'll
> make in your professional career. If you were going to enroll or
> apply to a college / universty - would you join a mailing list and
> value the opinions coming from people you don't know? Your CCIE
> number - in most cases - will help earn you a six-figure salary and
> sometimes carry as much weight (or more) than a AS or BS degree - so
> apply the same tactics you would apply (before purchasing) that you
> would apply of you were selecting a college / universty.
>
> The main point here is that I agree with everyone. Scott is
> accurate - Ask the vendors directly. The other GS members (Nadeem
> and itechguru) who have responded also have a valid point - "ask
> people" - but my *suggestion* is to know who is giving you advice
> and collect your facts in a serious and logical manner.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Wayne A. Lawson II - CCIE #5244
> Founder & President - IPexpert
> Mailto: wlawson_at_ipexpert.com
> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444, ext. 101
> Live Assistance, Please visit: www.ipexpert.com/chat
> eFax: +1.810.454.0130
>
> ::Message sent from iPhone::
>
>
>
> On Jan 17, 2010, at 1:07 PM, Itechguru <wajid.ccie_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I would definitely agree with Nadeem. There is nothing wrong in
> discussing
> different vendors or mentioning their products @ GS.
>
> Regards
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 12:51 PM, Nadeem Rafi <nrafia_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> hi,
> I am a proud customer of INE and very well satisfied with their
> products, a
> good admirer of Narbik and his way of teaching, esp. his mentoring
> capabilities. Never worked with IPexpert but they equally earn my
> respect
> for their hard work (although non of these are free :) )
> But i deserve to have right to know about all of them on neutral play
> ground
> which is GS. This is GS which let me deiced to go with INE CCIE 2.0
> program.
> So let the information flow smoothly, and ppl like me can decide
> based on
> their own judgments.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Nadeem Rafi
>
> On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> Ron and Nrafia or others that are interested,
>
> Yes we do, please UNICAST me if interested.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 5:53 AM, Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com> wrote:
>
> So where does that fine line exist between letting people know what's
> going on and being called advertising? It seems we've all had
> difficulty in establishing that line in the past. (different
> candidates
> have differerent thresholds)
>
> It would appear best to track anyone's updates:
>
> CCBootcamp www.ccbootcamp.com (Not sure there's a blog)
> INE www.ine.com blog.ine.com
> IPE www.ipexpert.com blog.ipexpert.com
> Narbik www.micronicstraining.com (I'm not sure if he has a blog,
> sorry)
>
> Note... Those are listed in alphabetical order, not establishing any
> order of preference or not! :)
>
> Each of the web sites though will also list e-mail addresses to get in
> contact with the person(s) directly.
>
> Scott Morris, CCIEx4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
>
> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
>
> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
>
> evil_at_ine.com
>
> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>
> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com <http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
>
> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
>
> Outside US: 775-826-4344
>
> Knowledge is power.
>
> Power corrupts.
>
> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>
> nrafia_at_gmail.com wrote:
>
> I dont feel any thing bad, if persons even ask on list. Being a
> candidate
> it let me know whats going on.
>
> On Jan 17, 2010 11:51am, Marko Milivojevic <markom_at_ipexpert.com>
> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 19:42, kaushalccie patel
> kaushalccie_at_gmail.com >
> wrote:
>
> Any news for Service Provider Workbook also ?
>
> How about asking this directly from the vendor's website / forum /
>
> sales / support / personal e-mail?
>
> --
>
> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
>
> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
>
> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
>
> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
>
> Fax: +1.810.454.0130
>
> Community: http://www.ipexpert.com/communities
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________

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> _______________________________________________________________________

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>
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>
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>
> _______________________________________________________________________

>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Narbik Kocharians
> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> www.MicronicsTraining.com
> Sr. Technical Instructor
> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> Training And Remote Racks available
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________

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Received on Sun Jan 17 2010 - 20:53:00 ART

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