Re: CCIE SP Changes

Agree, but if only people who have expert experience on the complete
blueprint of any given certification, then very little people will hold the
CCIE certification. Or, in other words, a whole bunch of people should be
de-certified.

And, uh, do you know if your doctor has graduated with a C average or an A
average? I don't think so... Granted, practice is part of their education,
but still

Marc

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 14:31, Marko Milivojevic <markom_at_ipexpert.com> wrote:

> I agree with all of the below, but it also comes down to "what does
> cert X represent".
>
> Do you really want to go to a certified cardio surgeon who has ... no
> experience, but hey, he's got Certified Heart Surgeon (20% or less
> chance of death)? No, me neither :-)
>
> --
> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
>
> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> Live Assistance, Please visit: http://www.ipexpert.com/chat
> eFax: +1.810.454.0130
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 13:25, Roger Pfaeffli <rpf23543_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Marko, somehow you are right but I think you agree with me, that a
> Cert is still a Cert and some of the things are not really relevant to
> livenetwork. So how you want to study for them? Even if you have many years
> of experience, if you have never used Cell Mode MPLS for example it makes it
> difficult to study for it, isn't it? Normally you will not find all the Cert
> stuff in real networks.
> >
> > To me, a big part of studying means hands on and training, training,
> training. I think that only with that way you can see how it works and
> figure out issues and weakness. You learn how to troubleshoot and so on.
> >
> > If you are lucky (as I am), you have CRS's, 7600's, ASR's and all other
> big and expensive boxes in your lab, but what if you don't? Do you think
> someone with no access to these products should not have the chance to make
> a SP?
> >
> > There are different point of views and we could discuss a long time. I
> definitely agree that the tracks should be very close to the real world but
> there should somehow be the possibility to make "real live training".
> > This is very good possible also with the SP track...
> >
> > So let's see what's coming in future for SP :o)
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Roger
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----UrsprC<ngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: Marko Milivojevic [mailto:markom_at_ipexpert.com]
> > Gesendet: Montag, 7. Dezember 2009 13:39
> > An: Roger Pfaeffli
> > Cc: Azar Ali; Narbik Kocharians; Ashwin Iyer; Majonestx; Cisco
> certification
> > Betreff: Re: CCIE SP Changes
> >
> > I don't understand why everyone brings up "end of home lab" as
> > something that is relevant. It's a SERVICE PROVIDER expert cert - none
> > of us can have that kind of lab at home. If you CAN have it, there is
> > something seriously wrong with the track. As someone who has worked
> > for almost 15 years in SP arena, I should know :-).
> >
> > When CCIE came to market and became prestigious, it was equally
> > expensive to prepare for it as it would be with "new" SP track.
> > Personally, I see nothing seriously wrong with that. Certificate needs
> > to be relevant, difficult and require dedication, study and experience
> > to obtain. If certificate doesn't have those attributes, it's as
> > useful as MCP Windows 98.
> >
> > --
> > Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
> > Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
> >
> > Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
> > Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> > Live Assistance, Please visit: http://www.ipexpert.com/chat
> > eFax: +1.810.454.0130
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 11:55, Roger Pfaeffli <rpf23543_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Well Marko, if you are right that would mean "the end" of home labs...
> >> ...at least for most of the students. I mean, imagine how much it would
> cost to make a home lab with 7600, ASR1000...
> >> I think even if you work with a SP, it could be difficult to get these
> boxes 1 year just for studying.
> >>
> >> I definitely agree, there should be some changes in the SP lab to bring
> it up to date, Cell Mode MPLS is (at least in my opinion) not really
> something we should learn as the "future technology". Additionally there is
> so much L2VPN stuff they should add.
> >
> >>
> >> Apart from the fact that I hate the C7600 (evil QoS and other weird
> stuff depending on the Linecard), I hope that Cisco will change the
> blueprint in that way that it "can be affordable" to make a home-, or
> company lab.
> >>
> >> I would be very disappointed if they would shutdown this track...I mean,
> they should rather shutdown Storage than the SP track...but that's my
> personal point of view.
> >>
> >> Let's see what happens :o)
> >>
> >> Roger
> >>
> >> -----UrsprC<ngliche Nachricht-----
> >> Von: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] Im Auftrag
> von Marko Milivojevic
> >> Gesendet: Montag, 7. Dezember 2009 09:09
> >> An: Azar Ali
> >> Cc: Narbik Kocharians; Ashwin Iyer; Majonestx; Cisco certification
> >> Betreff: Re: CCIE SP Changes
> >>
> >> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 07:50, Azar Ali <azarali1980_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> As Narbik said, its impossible to add 7600/12000 series routers due to
> cost.
> >>> So I don't expect too much change.B I'm curious to see whatB cisco can
> do for
> >>> SP track apart from IOS,core knowledge,troubleshooting sections. Yeah,
> can
> >>> could add a few more 7200's and probably some ISR's.
> >>
> >> I beg to differ. 7600 for Cisco are dirt cheap and all they would need
> >> are two per location. Add to that a couple of ASR1000 boxes, combined
> >> with 3-4 ME-3400 switches and you got yourself a pretty decent SP
> >> setup, unlike the one we have today.
> >>
> >> IB4m certain we are going to see either change comparable to what I
> >> described, or a complete shutdown of the track. All other tracks at the
> >> moment make sense relevance and technology-wise. SP is very out of
> >> date.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
> >> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
> >>
> >> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
> >> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> >> Live Assistance, Please visit: http://www.ipexpert.com/chat
> >> eFax: +1.810.454.0130
> >>
> >>
> >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
> >> Subscription information may be found at:
> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html

Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Mon Dec 07 2009 - 14:38:15 ART