Re: Not a happy ending ... I came up short.

I agree with Roy. The harder you study the better you become and CCIE number
follows.

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Roy Waterman <roy.waterman_at_gmail.com>wrote:

> I take back what I said after reading what Joe Astorino & Gary Duncanson
> have said.
> Pearls of wisdom from you guys.
> The blueprint lists what we need to know, we just need to ensure we know it
> all very well.
> One thing is for sure, we will be better engineers at the end of it, which
> is the whole point of pursuing the CCIE in the 1st place.
>
>
>
> 2009/10/30 Anantha Subramanian Natarajan <anantha.natarajan_at_gravitant.com>
>
> > Hi Andrew,
> >
> > Really sorry to hear that but I wish all the best for your next attempt
> > ...You have the great attitude and so never give up ...The post you did
> is
> > awesome but I could feel your pain when you tried not express your pain
> > ........
> >
> > Once again please come back to track as soon as possible and wish you all
> > the best for the next attempt
> >
> > Regards
> > Anantha Subramanian Natarajan
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 4:00 AM, peter morgan <cciemaha_at_yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi "ALL From_NJ",
> > >
> > > Thanks for the resourceful post! I wish you to pass in the very next
> > > attempt!
> > >
> > > Anyway I think that, this "Core" is a myth with V4 Labs. The exam has
> > three
> > > different sections. Each of the three is mandatory to pass.Three
> sections
> > > can be from different technology areas. In V3 labs we were calling that
> > FR,
> > > Switching & IGP as the core section. Which means if you pass the core
> > then
> > > you can have majority of marks(Around 60%) & core technology ares are
> > > mandatory to configure correctly. For example if u do not configure IGP
> > > correctly you may loose marks of Security section. Even you enter
> correct
> > > security commands your packets may not pass to test your configuration
> > > becuase of an IGP issue. Then you loose your security marks even with
> > > correct configurations. So, this core was a pre-requirement to have
> rest
> > of
> > > the marks(Around 40%). In my exams I had a personal guide line that; I
> > have
> > > to have configured & tested Core before the lunch time of the exam.
> > >
> > > If we specifically discuss about V4 configuration section then there
> may
> > be
> > > Core technology areas which may be dependant factors for other
> technology
> > > area configurations. Eg: MPLS may be a new addition to configuration
> > core...
> > >
> > > HTH,
> > >
> > > PM
> > > CCIE#18807
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Thu, 10/29/09, ALL From_NJ <all.from.nj_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: ALL From_NJ <all.from.nj_at_gmail.com>
> > > > Subject: Not a happy ending ... I came up short.
> > > > To: "Cisco certification" <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> > > > Date: Thursday, October 29, 2009, 9:13 PM
> > > > Hey team,
> > > >
> > > > I was hoping for a better post ... Yesterday I took the lab
> > > > and failed.
> > > > Some thoughts and comments, and hopefully you all will find
> > > > these helpful.
> > > > Sorry for the long post.
> > > >
> > > > *** OEQs - passed this part.
> > > >
> > > > - I found these to be fairly interesting. 3 were
> > > > pretty easy and 1 was a
> > > > bit hard IMO. The hard one really belonged to another
> > > > CCIE track, and not
> > > > the R&S ... I gave it my best guess, but since I was
> > > > not studying for this
> > > > technology, I am not sure of the answer. I suppose
> > > > that one could argue
> > > > that I should be aware of this hard question ..., and I was
> > > > a little bit,
> > > > but I certainly was not studying for it.
> > > >
> > > > - From my experience with the OEQs, I found these to fall
> > > > in line with many
> > > > of my lab testing and feature testing I had done in my
> > > > preparation. If you
> > > > like to test a protocol and verify your work, then you will
> > > > have no problems
> > > > with the questions I had. Simple memorization would
> > > > have been hard to do.
> > > > Example of what I mean (this was not on my lab and this is
> > > > only an example
> > > > of what I mean)
> > > >
> > > > Example: lets say that you are studying trunking and you
> > > > want to practice
> > > > configuring one side and not the other. Looking at
> > > > the config options with
> > > > the trunk protocols and port modes, what would happen if
> > > > you only configured
> > > > one side? What happens if you misconfigured one
> > > > side? What happens if you
> > > > have misconfigured duplex and speeds?
> > > >
> > > > In my case, I have learned a lot by using debugs and
> > > > misconfiguring things.
> > > > You all know that when things do not go right, you will
> > > > learn a lot. It is
> > > > easy to forget the labs you did when everything worked.
> > > >
> > > > So to continue following this example - if you were asked
> > > > about a trunking
> > > > config or about a trunk operation for a OEQ, you would
> > > > probably get this
> > > > question and think it was easy.
> > > >
> > > > For the 3 'easy' questions I had, I found that my normal
> > > > study habits
> > > > covered these nicely.
> > > >
> > > > I do wish Cisco would get rid of these OEQs all together
> > > > however, they are
> > > > not worth the time IMO, and do not really ensure
> > > > 'only-experts' pass. A lot
> > > > of 'hit-or-miss' in these questions and my feelings are
> > > > that some experts
> > > > have failed the lab because of these, and I think these
> > > > people should have
> > > > passed. Any who ...
> > > >
> > > > *** Troubleshooting section - I failed this section since I
> > > > had not
> > > > completed enough tickets in the time given.
> > > >
> > > > It was very disheartening that before lunch I knew my whole
> > > > trip was a
> > > > failure. I simply had not completed enough tickets
> > > > given the time.
> > > >
> > > > Most of these were similar to what I have labbed, however,
> > > > a few of these
> > > > were odd IMO and I did not even think of these for an
> > > > R&S / enterprise type
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > The wording of the problem is purposely vague, and the
> > > > router access was
> > > > clumsy. I think the screen could be partitioned and
> > > > presented in a much
> > > > more clear way. It is very easy to look at the
> > > > diagram and get lost and or
> > > > confused. I got the feeling that Cisco is trying to
> > > > do too much with one
> > > > screen, and i would suggest that the screen be broken up
> > > > some /
> > > > partitioned.
> > > >
> > > > Overall, I liked the idea of having a troubleshooting
> > > > section ...
> > > >
> > > > Putting the confusion and wording aside, you have to study
> > > > very hard for
> > > > this section. I figured since I have done a fair
> > > > amount of tshooting in the
> > > > past and in my studies, that I would find this section an
> > > > easy addition. I
> > > > also consider myself decent with the core technologies and
> > > > some of the new
> > > > 'non-core' lab items, so I was looking forward to this.
> > > >
> > > > My approach does not work. One reason this does not
> > > > work is because the
> > > > questions are so vague. An example that was
> > > > previously shown by Cisco was
> > > > "router X cannot communicate with router Y". How to
> > > > troubleshoot this
> > > > quickly? There are a few routers and or a frame relay
> > > > network in the middle
> > > > of the two end points ...
> > > >
> > > > Lets say you start with a ping and the ping fails, ok ...
> > > > you verified that
> > > > the trouble ticket are real trouble tickets. Ping
> > > > does not get you much in
> > > > this environment ... so is the problem an IP address
> > > > misconfigured on the
> > > > end point routers or a router in the middle, an interface
> > > > shutdown, a
> > > > routing protocol configured wrong, etc ... how to start and
> > > > find this
> > > > quickly?
> > > >
> > > > If you have 12 tickets in total, and you need to pass this
> > > > section, then
> > > > you need to solve about 9 or so ... Try to solve them all
> > > > ... make sure you
> > > > have some 'padding' in case one of your other solutions is
> > > > not the right
> > > > one. My advice would be to solve as many as you can.
> > > >
> > > > You have about 11 to 13 minutes per question. I found
> > > > this section hard ...
> > > > and did not pass this section.
> > > >
> > > > I wish the troubleshooting section could be included in the
> > > > regular lab.
> > > > This way you would solve the tickets as well as build your
> > > > lab at the same
> > > > time. Any who ...
> > > >
> > > > *** Configure section - I failed this part as well.
> > > >
> > > > I agree with what others have said. You have around
> > > > 5.5 hours and an
> > > > enormous amount of information to get through. It
> > > > seems like they have
> > > > taken a normal lab and just reorganized it and now give you
> > > > less time to
> > > > solve it.
> > > >
> > > > Please forgive me for suggesting this, but ... in order to
> > > > pass the config
> > > > section, I almost feel as though you need to memorize
> > > > commands and spit out
> > > > the configs quickly. No time for doc cd, and limited
> > > > time for the '?'. I
> > > > think it is a terrible idea to blindly memorize materials
> > > > ... but I cannot
> > > > think of another way to answer a huge amount of material in
> > > > just a little
> > > > over 5 hours.
> > > >
> > > > Does this mean that being a CCIE requires you to have an
> > > > amazing memory? I
> > > > hate to say it, but I think Cisco is missing it on
> > > > this. I do not think
> > > > this format allows for a lot of individual creativity and
> > > > style ... I think
> > > > you will have to fit whatever mold is required.
> > > > Perhaps that is a good
> > > > thing anyway, maybe ... I just think that the config
> > > > section will force
> > > > people to memorize technologies. I would like to see
> > > > differences in people
> > > > and also still allow for different approaches and styles.
> > > >
> > > > Sorry team, I know I am not communicating this very well,
> > > > and in fact I do
> > > > not like the way this sounds.
> > > >
> > > > If I am to plan my next take, I will make sure that I can
> > > > spit out the
> > > > "non-core" commands quickly, as well as the 'extraneous'
> > > > and obscure tweaks
> > > > to each of these non-core topics ... I would need to do
> > > > this super fast
> > > > since time is so tight. We used to have the doc cd
> > > > for these obscure items
> > > > ... maybe you can still rely on the doc cd, and you should
> > > > know how to find
> > > > everything super quick.
> > > >
> > > > What is core and non-core? <-- ... IMO, this has
> > > > not been communicated
> > > > properly yet ...
> > > >
> > > > I think that my lab was really more of a network admin lab,
> > > > and less like a
> > > > 'set up an advanced and insane network'. What does
> > > > this mean in terms of
> > > > lab topics? Well ... look at the lab blueprint, and
> > > > think about which items
> > > > are 'on-going' and admin work. Study the heck out of
> > > > these ...
> > > >
> > > > My lab had some new topics on it, of course it was the new
> > > > version; makes
> > > > sense ... Lord knows I do not want to break the NDA here
> > > > ... so I am trying
> > > > to tip toe this topic carefully ...
> > > >
> > > > Let me just say, it is my opinion that you cannot pass
> > > > without knowing the
> > > > non-core topics. Does this make sense? Probably
> > > > not ... what I think has
> > > > happened is that the lab has shifted its
> > > > core. From what used to be
> > > > advanced network set up, R&S, ... to more of a network
> > > > admin role. This is
> > > > also what Cisco has told us.
> > > >
> > > > Folks - think back to what Maurilio has told us and the
> > > > extensive research
> > > > that Cisco did when re-designing the R&S CCIE.
> > > > Cisco found out that
> > > > companies are not looking for network set up, but more of
> > > > an ongoing
> > > > maintenance, monitoring, troubleshooting, etc ...
> > > >
> > > > So this means less focus on what we used to think was core;
> > > > folks, I cannot
> > > > emphasize this enough. I was very disappointed to
> > > > find that what I had
> > > > previously considered to be the traditional R&S core
> > > > topics are not really
> > > > core anymore ... in fact, my studies were off. Cisco
> > > > told us that the
> > > > version 4 lab had changed its focus ... I guess I did not
> > > > fully understand
> > > > what this means in terms of prep work.
> > > >
> > > > Team - as mentioned above, look over the blueprint again
> > > > and consider those
> > > > items which represent this change in focus and study the
> > > > heck out of them.
> > > > (the non-core is now core topics). Of course you have
> > > > to know the "core R&S
> > > > topics" ... but you will not pass without knowing the "new
> > > > v4 core" (AKA
> > > > non-core).
> > > >
> > > > Back to the earlier question ... what is core and
> > > > non-core? Another way of
> > > > looking at this question is ... "can I pass without knowing
> > > > the non-core
> > > > topics?" As others have mentioned in their v4
> > > > reviews, everything on the
> > > > blueprint is fair game. Ok ... we already knew this,
> > > > and team, I hope this
> > > > is becoming clearer.
> > > >
> > > > Do not make the same mistake as me and think that the
> > > > R&S is a routing is
> > > > switching lab ... the focus has changed some as Cisco told
> > > > us. I hope this
> > > > message is getting out.
> > > >
> > > > 'nough said about that.
> > > >
> > > > A little about my prep work. I have used the ASET
> > > > labs, and these are
> > > > great. These helped me a lot in the CCIE v3
> > > > topics. I was able to get
> > > > through many of these in 6 hours or so ... and get
> > > > 90%+ in scores. I
> > > > thought I was ready for the CCIE lab and everything seemed
> > > > to be on target
> > > > for my lab! As mentioned above however, I did not
> > > > fully understand the
> > > > change in focus and how the non-core items have become
> > > > core. I also used
> > > > CCBOOTCAMPs v3 materials, and I enjoyed these a lot.
> > > > I was completing these
> > > > fairly well in my studies.
> > > >
> > > > I am sorry to be so confusing in my writing. I hope
> > > > what I have said makes
> > > > sense. Please also go back and re-read what Cisco has
> > > > told us about the new
> > > > v4 design and new topics.
> > > >
> > > > Also team, I hope to avoid a word smith exercise with any
> > > > of you about
> > > > what the word core means. I am sure that this word
> > > > has many meanings to
> > > > many people.
> > > >
> > > > It is getting late and I am sure my ramblings have become
> > > > long winded
> > > > please permit a few more (then I promise to be done with
> > > > this email)
> > > >
> > > > A suggestion to the vendors who are on this list. I
> > > > might suggest to take
> > > > an 8 hour lab and fit it into a 5.5 hour time frame.
> > > > Please also consider
> > > > the change in focus that Cisco told us about and ensure
> > > > that there are
> > > > plenty of additional items in the labs you create.
> > > > Remove some of the
> > > > routing and switching portions and make sure you include
> > > > extraneous and
> > > > obscure non-core topics. We have to be an expert in
> > > > everything of course
> > > >
> > > > You all are very sharp, all of you, and so I am probably
> > > > not telling you
> > > > anything you do not already know. Rock on
> > > > vendors!
> > > >
> > > > For the Cisco partners, the change in focus is good for
> > > > enterprise customers
> > > > who need more of a network admin focus / role and
> > > > does this fit your
> > > > business model? What do Cisco partners want in a
> > > > CCIE? Is this
> > > > represented in the new v4 format? If not, I would
> > > > suggest to voice your
> > > > comments as it is important to both partners and enterprise
> > > > customers. Very
> > > > important to voice your comments / praise /
> > > > concerns. Just a thought .
> > > >
> > > > Team pardon the delays in my next responses.
> > > > After having put many things
> > > > on hold, I have an immediate honey-do list to take care
> > > > of. I have some
> > > > work to do around the house before I can consider how I
> > > > will take this on
> > > > again oh boy, it is fall in NJ and so I have
> > > > mountains of leaves to attend
> > > > to. My aching back!
> > > >
> > > > Lol have a great night team.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Andrew Lee Lissitz
> > > > all.from.nj_at_gmail.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > > >
> > > >
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>
> --
> Regards
> Roy
>
>
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Received on Fri Oct 30 2009 - 10:57:31 ART