RE: cisco lab safe

Well said.

-
Daniel

-----Original Message-----
From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Andrew Fox
Sent: Mittwoch, 16. September 2009 21:37
To: Travis Niedens
Cc: chazstats_at_gmail.com; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: cisco lab safe

Now now hang on there I think kicking Darby off GS would be a bit harsh. I
personally enjoy his posts yes they may go on a bit sometimes they always
generate some discussion. You have to say he is a character and the world
always needs characters whether you like them or not as otherwise things
would be pretty dull. Besides if you do not like what he posts just filter
it out or change the channel :-)

Anyhow back to the topic in hand the only greyness I can see in this
discussion is the dividing line between the Cisco 360 program and the actual
CCIE certification program. Brad has already hinted that the 360 program has
access to CCIE material that your other vendors do not. So what does this
mean for the impartiality of the CCIE certification? Does it mean in future
that you will go through the 360 program and they will give you 3 free
attempts and then it will escalate to you go through the 360 program and you
are guaranteed your CCIE? I think Cisco have to be really careful here and
not kill the goose that lays the golden egg. I think someone in Cisco saw
hey there are these crazy people that spend a fortune and all their time
trying to attain this certification that means they are experts in our
proprietary operating system. There is more money to be made out of them so
we need to have a piece of that pie and then when Cisco move into a market
they no doubt have a sales person who looks at their pretty little sales
forecasts and wants to make the graph shoot straight up through the roof and
how do they do that shift more product, or in this case certify more CCIE's.
Which has the reverse effect on the value of the cert. Maybe that's why the
CCDE was brought out at about the same time as the 360 program. Maybe Russ
White and the long time CCIE's saw the value of their certs dropping and
thought hell we better invent a new one, maybe that's also why it was stated
that there will be no 360 for the CCDE yet to give them some time to enjoy
their new status :-)

Now not to be classed as Darby 2 some points:

CCIE will never become like the MCSE, why not? as Admiral Sir Andrew
Cunningham's remark (on 26 May 1941) 'It takes the Navy three years to build
a ship. It would take 300 years to rebuild a tradition.' shows if you are
not careful a reputation can be destroyed in an instant.
Narbik part of the 360 hmm not really do you see a Cisco or 360 logo on his
new workbook so I will not count his excellent materials as part of the
program.
The materials as Darby says are the old NMC stuff and what has been updated?
Apparently on the MPLS CoD the instructor sounds like he is reading straight
out of a book.
Why did Cisco invent the 360 program did anyone really complain that CCIE
training was broken? Surely if they wanted to fix things they could fix the
CCNP and CCNA and include a configuration element to them, because we all
know that the NP and NA are broken which is why we want the IE because it
shows we are not paper engineers.

2009/9/16 Travis Niedens <niedentj_at_hotmail.com>

> ^5 !
>
>
>
> Maybe one day Paul will kick Derby off. Using this forum as a way to look
> like
> a windbag on google analytics isn't acceptable however I don't run GS...
I
> have added his email addys to my blocked list on my email server.
>
>
>
> As for the training, they CAN make it good if they wanted to. I think that
> even though they have the $$, they are hurting right now and need to keep
> this
> part of their portfolio profitable. People passing the CCIE the FIRST
time
> out is not in their best interest. Some poor sap passing after 6 attempts
> is
> gold to them. Chambers and their current CFO really are looking at bottom
> line now, not what good they are doing for companies and individuals -
> that's
> just a fact of life. Just look at the cost of the lab... they are using
> older
> switches and low end routers over and over again for the same labs. Their
> proctors are salarized and can be forced to work whatever hours Cisco
deems
> fit as they are exempt. The only variable cost for their CCIE lab env is
> the
> power - raises up in summer, lowers in winter. Ultimately, this is a money
> making venture for them - keep that in mind.
>
>
>
> Travis
>
> > From: chazstats_at_gmail.com
> > To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: cisco lab safe
> > Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:26:39 -0700
> >
> > I have been reading this list for a long time, watching Darby post crap
> > after crap... He's bashed every vendor at least once and promoted every
> > vendor at least once...He promotes whichever vendor gives him free
> > crap/classes/whatever...He bitches about how the OEQ are unfair, and
> should
> > be boycotted...Darby has convinced me of one thing, and one thing only,
> that
> > Darby is an idiot and does nothing but waste bandwidth. I am sick and
> tired
> > of reading his crap. I try to filter him, but people respond to his
crap,
> so
> > that shows up in my groupstudy folder....I wish the list owner would
> remove
> > him as he adds no value, whatsoever...PLEASE!
> >
> > Now, about Cisco and 360...so I don't waste bandwidth just whining about
> how
> > Darby is the most annoying f*er on this list...
> >
> > Cisco has the most money, most resources, and best access to the exam
> > materials. If Cisco wants to put out the best training product for their
> > exam, they are going to do it. INE, IPX, Narbik, nor anyone else can do
> > better than that by themselves....Forget it!!! Cisco has millions of
> dollars
> > they can throw at developing CCIE training. No one else can even come
> > close... If they want to own the market on CCIE training, they will. And
> > either the other companies will join the program, diversify into other
> > certifications, or go out of business...Cisco's big problem right now is
> > their marketing of their 360 program. It's pathetic, awful, and a joke.
> Who
> > ever is in charge of marketing for 360 should be FIRED
immediately...Make
> > them retire, walk them to the street, put them on the bus back to
> wherever
> > they came from. Where are the Cisco engineers blogging, posting on
forums
> > and technical lists, answering technical questions, etc about CCIE??? It
> > ain't happening. Not even the companies selling the 360 are doing a good
> job
> > of marketing it...The program is confusing as hell...If you do a 360,
> don't
> > you just go back to where you started from in the first place?!?! What a
> > stupid marketing/program name...FIRE the marketing idiot...Now a free
> > re-take if you fail the lab??? WTF!?!? If the program is so good in the
> > first place, WTF should I be concerned about failing?!?!? What another
> > stupid marketing idea...Why not just give the person a free attempt
after
> > they take the class??? STUPID STUPID STUPID marketing...FIRE the
> marketing
> > idiot...The training is insanely overpriced and a rip-off for a brand
> new,
> > non-time-proven training package...FIRE the marketing idiot.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Dark
> > Fiber
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:02 AM
> > To: Darby Weaver
> > Cc: Evan Weston; Scott Morris; Brad Ellis; armylegionmedic_at_aol.com;
> > dane.newman_at_gmail.com; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com; Rick Smith (smithr)
> > Subject: Re: cisco lab safe
> >
> > All I know in July INE was completely dead in the water for you. That is
> all
> > you hammered on since your were off to IPX's bootcamp in August. You
took
> up
> > the light saber against INE. Now today you are their biggest fan once
> > again... Next month it will be someone else and so forth...
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Darby Weaver
> > <darby.weaver_at_gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> > > What discount would that be Evan?
> > >
> > > You sound like you think I've been paid off....
> > >
> > > Hah!
> > >
> > > Get a clue...
> > >
> > > If anything I was still kind of curious about the INE 2.0
> End-to-End....
> > > except when the end changes...
> > >
> > >
> > > But I agree they have to charge for development to make a buck.
> > >
> > >
> > > Think like 360 - Where's the new development?
> > >
> > > The pirates have the old stuff and guess what its the new stuff
> anyway...
> > > so what ya want me to tell ya?
> > >
> > > INE/IPE/Narbik are the current developers... for new exciting, quality
> > > content..
> > >
> > > Guess what!!!
> > >
> > > None of them are that advertisement....
> > >
> > > Not one...
> > >
> > > See the whole picture...
> > >
> > > You don't gotta like me - but just check out what I say and see if it
> > holds
> > > water on the day I said it.
> > >
> > > If you can do that... you can keep up...
> > >
> > > If not... then man... you'd just be so... YESTERDAY.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Evan Weston
> > <evan_weston_at_hotmail.com>wrote:
> > >
> > >> I was about to say the same thing. Not long ago he was on here
> > >> prophesying their bankruptcy. I guess giving trolls a certain
> discount
> > >> rate goes a long way to adjusting their attitudes.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> *From:* Dark Fiber [mailto:darkfiber08_at_gmail.com]
> > >> *Sent:* Wednesday, 16 September 2009 11:36 PM
> > >> *To:* Darby Weaver
> > >> *Cc:* Evan Weston; Scott Morris; Brad Ellis; armylegionmedic_at_aol.com;
> > >> dane.newman_at_gmail.com; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com; Rick Smith (smithr)
> > >>
> > >> *Subject:* Re: cisco lab safe
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Darby weren't you just saying two months ago INE was DOA????
> > >>
> > >> This is way your credibility always comes into question. You flip
flop
> > >> every other month man...
> > >>
> > >> Not saying you were anywhere near close to being right about INE
> either
> > >> two months ago...
> >
> >
> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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Received on Thu Sep 17 2009 - 11:33:54 ART