RE: cisco lab safe

I was about to say the same thing. Not long ago he was on here prophesying
their bankruptcy. I guess giving trolls a "certain discount rate" goes a
long way to adjusting their attitudes.

From: Dark Fiber [mailto:darkfiber08_at_gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 16 September 2009 11:36 PM
To: Darby Weaver
Cc: Evan Weston; Scott Morris; Brad Ellis; armylegionmedic_at_aol.com;
dane.newman_at_gmail.com; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com; Rick Smith (smithr)
Subject: Re: cisco lab safe

Darby weren't you just saying two months ago INE was DOA????

This is way your credibility always comes into question. You flip flop every
other month man...

Not saying you were anywhere near close to being right about INE either two
months ago...

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 8:44 AM, Darby Weaver <darby.weaver_at_gmail.com>
wrote:

Evan,

The materials that one owns from INE, and I am well-invested with INE, have
the new topics ingrained.

I did pay a certain discounted rate to purchase the Troubleshooting
materials and I still had a little credit on my account and did so recently.

Ummm...

Please - What do the 360 Vendors have today that has been released for the
360 Program, that has not been released by the likes of INE?

You really have to help me here.

The 1-4 Labs are the old lab from at least 2006 on the CCIE Accessor
Topology and if you "KNOW" the CCIE Accessor Topology then you know probably
know why...

So you get to buy materials that are 2-3 years old and get to pay a premium
rate... for them.. (That means you are going to pay more for the old stuff
that NMC developed back in the old days.... and managed to get Cisco to buy
up on and now all their former competition is selling for them.... Someone
has quite the plan....)

Pinky.... I really am taking over the world.......

Look dude have you seen INE's Blog lately? Have you?

Well for those who don't know the latest 5.0 stuff is of that caliber and
the 360 has never even started to think in terms of the "Poly-Labs" and
quite frankly probably won't.

I'm dying to see the latest developments from IPE as I understand they are
on the verge of releasing some innovative stuff too.

You guys count Narbik as a 360 instructor....

Well I did not see his name on the list.

The big thing I "heard about at Cisco Live" was that the Cisco 360 had 30
World-Reknown instructors...

"AWESOME"

BUT BUT BUT

How many actually develop content for the CCIE Lab....... Well technically
you go the NMC Team....

And I asked Bruce Caslow himself about the "GAP" in between his labs
(NMC-1/NMC-2 = CCIERS-1/CIERS-2) and the beginners for the CCIE....

And he said...

"Well, Darb, ya know Val put a lot of time creating the highest quality labs
on the market.... and ya know Brian Dennis talked with us about that back in
2004.... and we're just not going to do that"

Ummm...

Re-read that....

What the 360 is missing is a "Gap Program" and so they tried to bring Narbik
into the plan.... and CLC's are attractice to anyone...

So...

You see if they don't count Narbik in the 360...

And he's NOT on the list.... in this offer....

They really don't have a viable program for the 360....

They just don't.

You guys who took the 360 lab at Cisco Live....

That is THE LAB I took on Day-1 back in 2006... Twice...

IF you take CCIERS-1, that lab you had about 2 hours to do will most likely
be the same lab 10+ hours you have to complete on Day 1 at CCIERS-1...

And you get to spend about 2 hours going over it the next day....

You see the 360 is flawed a bit.

It has an ACHILLES HEEL....

It is called HUBRIS.

Buy us cause we're sponsored by Cisco...

WTF!!!!!

Cisco used to sponsor Knowledgenet too....

But who actually used the stuff to actually pass the lab.

WTF!!!

R.I.P - Cisco 360....

Sounded like a "360 Degree Prrgoam" but there are a lot of degrees
missing.....

Hey the coolest thing I heard was when a 360 Instructor said I'll just send
my students to attend Narbik's classes....

And if you look....

It looks like other of the Cisco 360 30 CCIE's did this too....

So tell me how many instructors are left in that Gang of 30?

We know some are defecting and backsliding or quitting and joining others...

Right now the Cisco 360 is alike a box of chocolates....

You never know what you might gets...

A CCNP, a CCSP, and maybe a CCIE....

Who's gonna teach you today....

But it is all about the student. Right?

No it's about the $$$

The 360 is a way for the brains behind the matter to make $$$

NMC's number of passing CCIE's has evaporated. Go to their site and look.
Or they just dont care anymore to keep up the site....

Cisco 360 has effectively SQUISHED innovation and development....

And it gives some fresh CCIE's a way to earn revenue...

It's the McDonalds of the CCIE Training World... Do you want fries with
that?

So do you want to go to McDonalds's to get your study for your CCIE? (They
have been serving th same burger for 50-60 years and it works for
McDonald's) and a newbie will serve you that burger....

And I actually give the 360 more credit than is due - McDonalds is
organized and standardized... 360 is a hodge-podge confederation that is
really poorly supported relatively speaking by Cisco or to my eyes it seems
so.

Look in the month of October, I am going to write a VERY BRUTAL article that
a lot of our instructors have asked me about.

I am going to compare the Bootcamps, the Materials, and the tell you what I
think about them and how each REALLY COMPARES.

Some people are just going to hate me but when I'm done you will be able to
at least have one opinion that you an use or discard about each Bootcamp.

Now this means - some people are REALLY REALLY GOING TO HATE ME.

However it is going to do what needs to be done...

If you got a CCIE Program from 30 years ago.... then I'm going to tell
reader yuo do and I'm going to tell them why and probably compare your stuff
today with whatever I'm talking about.

If you have some many errors you need to fire that CCNP who wrote your
workbooks - Sucks to be the CCNP...

If you are a poor demonstrator and/or your Videos are sub-par or
incomplete...

Like a certain video for the Cisco 360 for example...

I'm going to say it...

So Evan, I understand people don't know... and it sells 360....

God Bless the Marketing Hype.

But people need to read the conditions AGAIN!!!!!

That is not a guarantee it is a conditional guaranteee...

There is a difference.... Hell you'd be lucky to get scheduled into a class
fo ra repeat....

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 7:27 AM, Evan Weston <evan_weston_at_hotmail.com>
wrote:

Just to play Devils advocate here.... I passed a couple of months back but
if I had have failed and was on my contingency plan preparing for 4.0 right
now, I'd be a mighty unhappy INE customer right now for still not having an
MPLS in Workbook 1 yet. Going to the INE website on the way to the members
section and seeing the "CCIE 4.0 We've got you covered" advertisements
really annoys me.

Pls disregard if it has been released and its just not in my member section.
But it does seem to me like the 360 vendors are getting their up to date
stuff out faster.

-----Original Message-----
From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Scott Morris

Sent: Wednesday, 16 September 2009 10:07 AM
To: Dark Fiber
Cc: Brad Ellis; armylegionmedic_at_aol.com; dane.newman_at_gmail.com;
ccielab_at_groupstudy.com; Rick Smith (smithr)

Subject: Re: cisco lab safe

It's not only not "fair" (isn't all fair in love, war and marketing?)
but it's also not accurate. Some of us merely adhere to NDAs better
than others do, and don't attempt to rub noses in things.

But it's all in the name of fun, right?

*Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,

JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.

JNCI-M, JNCI-ER

evil_at_ine.com

Internetwork Expert, Inc.

http://www.InternetworkExpert.com <http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>

Toll Free: 877-224-8987

Outside US: 775-826-4344

Knowledge is power.

Power corrupts.

Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......

Dark Fiber wrote:
> I can't see that being fair to bring up right now... What does that
> tell people who want to get started today? Wait "X" amount of time
> because their is a change coming down the line? If there is a major
> change coming down the line why isn't this being told to us right now?
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Brad Ellis <brad_at_ccbootcamp.com
> <mailto:brad_at_ccbootcamp.com>> wrote:
>
> Scott is comparing a grey-market program to the Cisco authorized 360
> learning program. There are some major changes coming to the CCIE lab
> exam. The Cisco 360 Program already has the "inside scoop" on the
> changes coming down the pipe. The grey market folks don't have
> that. If
> you want to prepare for your lab exam properly, it's going to become
> more and more apparent that the 360 program is the way to go. (One of
> the big reasons why we joined the program!)
>
> This announcement is only one of many things to come. There will
> be more
> and more differentiators that keep making the Cisco 360 Learning
> Program
> increasingly advantageous as the best option for CCIE training
> over grey
> market competition.
>
> thanks,
> Brad Ellis
> CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
> CCSI# 30482
> CEO / President
> CCBOOTCAMP - Cisco Learning Solutions Partner (CLSP)
> Email: brad_at_ccbootcamp.com <mailto:brad_at_ccbootcamp.com>
> Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> International: +1-702-968-5100
> Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>
> [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>] On
> Behalf Of
> Scott Morris
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:41 PM
> To: armylegionmedic_at_aol.com <mailto:armylegionmedic_at_aol.com>
> Cc: darkfiber08_at_gmail.com <mailto:darkfiber08_at_gmail.com>;
> dane.newman_at_gmail.com <mailto:dane.newman_at_gmail.com>;
> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> Subject: Re: cisco lab safe
>
> Excellent question on that. The CCIE Essentials, though, is exactly
> that from them, the workbooks + videos. So I was putting out the
> option. It simply happened to be the least expensive option from us.
>
> By the way, according to
> https://cisco.hosted.jivesoftware.com/docs/DOC-5857, I was
> incorrect on
> my math. You must take ALL FOUR (4 x 349 = $1,400) AND score at least
> 80% on one of them. So their minimum investment just became $3,995 +
> $1,400 = $5,395.
>
> Slice it however you want. It's marketing, and I most certainly won't
> fault anyone for that! As always, people are capable of making their
> own decisions on things! Just do the math.
>
> I'm not downplaying the program itself. I know too many of the people
> involved and respect their capabilities all around. Not all vendors
> selling the 360 will be the same, however, which puts a kludge into
> things... but as long as you know what you're getting into, you are
> welcome to select whichever flavor of apple works best for you! Some
> may be more expensive than others despite the pretty sign next to
> them!
>
> ;)
>
>
>
>
> *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider)
> #4713,
>
> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
>
> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
>
> evil_at_ine.com <mailto:evil_at_ine.com>
>
>
> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>
> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com <http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>

>
> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
>
> Outside US: 775-826-4344
>
>
> Knowledge is power.
>
> Power corrupts.
>
> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>
>
>
> armylegionmedic_at_aol.com <mailto:armylegionmedic_at_aol.com> wrote:
> > I mean, maybe this is just me, but the only price that was cheap
> > enough to beat Cisco's deal was a CoD and Workkooks, so we arent
> > really comparing Apples to Apples are we? If we were to look
> apples to
> > apples or maybe like a Granny Smith vs. Mt. Washington Apple, I
> think
> > that the Cisco 360 offer is looking pretty tempting. The only part
> > that I would have to really say competes is the free re-sits.
> This is
> > all IMO, but maybe I am misreading something.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dark Fiber <darkfiber08_at_gmail.com
> <mailto:darkfiber08_at_gmail.com>>
> > To: Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com <mailto:smorris_at_ine.com>>
> > Cc: Dane Newman <dane.newman_at_gmail.com
> <mailto:dane.newman_at_gmail.com>>; Cisco certification
> > <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>
> > Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 3:25 pm
> > Subject: Re: cisco lab safe
> >
> > If I read that right $3500 and the price of a mock lab might be
> worth
> it for
> > a $1400 lab voucher if you fail. Anyone else get the same or did I
> misread
> > it?
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com
> <mailto:smorris_at_ine.com>> wrote:
> >
> > > Ok.... So let's do some math on this...
> > >
> > > CIERS1 = $3,995
> > > CIERS2 = $4,500
> > > Essentials = $4,550
> > >
> > > Plus an Assessment lab (minimum 1, possibly more) = $349
> > >
> > > So at a BARE MINIMUM you are looking at $3,995 + $349 = $4,345
> that
> you
> > > have to spend in order to get that.
> > >
> > > For INE's pricing, a bootcamp costs $2,995 (not including any
> > > discounts). The mock lab workshop is $3,995 again not counting
> > > discounts. The lab workbook set + CoD bundle = $825 + 1,695 or
> $2,520
> > > (not including any discounts). A mock lab (minimum 1, possibly
> more) =
> > > $129.
> > >
> > > So on price point alone, you have a minimum comparable
> spending (not
> > > including discounts) of $2,649. That's a grand difference
> there of
> > > $1,696, so you can spring for another lab, not need
> pre-qualification
> > > AND save an extra $296 to use towards your
> airfare/hotel/food/whatever....
> > >
> > > Oh yeah, and you don't get re-sits in the 360 program, you can
> attend
> > > our classes as many times as you'd like to and whenever you'd like
> to.
> > >
> > > So I'm really thinking that this kind of promotion alone is not
> going to
> > > swing someone one way or the other, at least unless they don't do
> math.
> > > But I'm sure if you work with our sales department, we would
> be more
> > > than happy to charge you more money and simply spring for a lab
> attempt
> > > for you based on certain criteria and select vendors only.
> > >
> > > If you have any questions on this, feel free to contact me
> offline,
> I'd
> > > be more than happy to cover options with you. I don't see a point
> of
> > > dragging this on and on through a technical list (e.g.
> non-marketing
> list).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider)
> #4713,
> > >
> > > JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> > >
> > > JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
> > >
> > > evil_at_ine.com <mailto:evil_at_ine.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > >
> > > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
<http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> > >
> > > Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> > >
> > > Outside US: 775-826-4344
> > >
> > >
> > > Knowledge is power.
> > >
> > > Power corrupts.
> > >
> > > Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dane Newman wrote:
> > > > I got the following email below from cisco. All I can say
> is imo
> this
> > > will
> > > > make it harder on 3rd party vendors sadly that do offer quality
> training.
> > > > The chance to retake the lab for free is worth its weight in
> gold
> for all
> > > > the stress relief it can bring.
> > > >
> > > > Dane
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Cisco Lab Safe Promotion: Protect Your Training Investment
> > > > Learning_at_Cisco is pleased to introduce the Cisco Lab Safe
> promotion. The
> > > > Cisco Lab Safe promotion allows qualifying Cisco. 360 Learning
> Program
> > > for
> > > > CCIE. Routing & Switching students who don't pass their
> first CCIE
> lab
> > > exam
> > > > attempt, to retake the CCIE lab exam (a $1,400 US Value) at no
> additional
> > > > cost.
> > > > The Cisco 360 Learning Program for R&S guides engineers who have
> three to
> > > > five years of networking experience through an effective,
> job-relevant,
> > > and
> > > > proven program to build expert-level skills and to prepare
> for the
> > > rigorous
> > > > Cisco CCIE R&S certification exams. Together, the Cisco 360
> Learning
> > > > Program for CCIE R&S and the Cisco Lab Safe promotion provide
> added
> > > > assurance in the quality and value of your training investment.
> > > > How the Cisco Lab Safe Promotion Works:
> > > > Students must meet the following criteria in order to be
> eligible
> for the
> > > > Cisco Lab Safe promotion:
> > > > A recommendation from their instructor
> > > > Completed the Cisco 360 Learning Program for CCIE R&S Essentials
> Package
> > > or
> > > > a CIERS instructor-led workshop
> > > > Scored 80% or better on one of the CIERS 1-4 performance
> assessments
> > > > Only select Authorized Cisco Learning Partners offer the
> Cisco 360
> > > Learning
> > > > Program curriculum and Cisco Lab Safe promotion.
> > > > Find out more about Cisco Lab Safe promotion and the official
> terms and
> > > > conditions on the Cisco Learning Network.
> > > >
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Received on Wed Sep 16 2009 - 23:42:18 ART