Re: cisco lab safe

Surely you jest...Wow.

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 12:01 AM, Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com> wrote:

> Very true, very true... Not sure about R&S, I haven't heard anything.
> But I've been hearing rumors that the CCIE Security class is taught by a
> CCSP. *shrug*
>
> Narbik Kocharians wrote:
> > Sorry Scott, i thought you were talking about me; Well, who cares about
> what
> > he says? Does he offer R&S these days?
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Michael Jones <majonestx_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> ****waits for someone to come in and spin this convo into how the OEQ
> arent
> >> fair.
> >>
> >> :)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 8:32 PM, Terry Vinson <
> consultant_at_tnclimited.com
> >>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> When it's all said and done. We all know who makes CCIE's. A student
> >>>
> >> with
> >>
> >>> a desire to endure the marathon (gauntlet), and the
> >>>
> >> instructor/instructors
> >>
> >>> that make all the difference for them. NO amount of corporate
> >>>
> >> positioning
> >>
> >>> is going to change that. No amount of marketing is going to make
> someone
> >>> internalize (and know) this amount of information in half the time it
> >>>
> >> takes
> >>
> >>> now. What works for some will not work for others. There is no cookie
> >>> cutter program that will ever turn out the caliber of CCIE's that
> Narbik,
> >>> IPexpert and INE have made separately to date.
> >>>
> >>> Diversity is strength in this business.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Scott Morris wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> You weren't on the original distribution, or the writer of the direct
> >>>> e-mail I was replying to... So I don't think so. ;)
> >>>>
> >>>> It's all good. Fun to watch.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider)
> #4713,
> >>>>
> >>>> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> >>>>
> >>>> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
> >>>>
> >>>> evil_at_ine.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com <http://www.internetworkexpert.com/
> >
> >>>>
> >>>> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> >>>>
> >>>> Outside US: 775-826-4344
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Knowledge is power.
> >>>>
> >>>> Power corrupts.
> >>>>
> >>>> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Narbik Kocharians wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> I am sorry Scott, who are you talking to? are you talking to me? Who
> is
> >>>>> breaking NDA?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> It's not only not "fair" (isn't all fair in love, war and
> marketing?)
> >>>>>> but it's also not accurate. Some of us merely adhere to NDAs
> better
> >>>>>> than others do, and don't attempt to rub noses in things.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But it's all in the name of fun, right?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider)
> >>>>>>
> >> #4713,
> >>
> >>>>>> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> evil_at_ine.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com<
> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/><
> >>>>>>
> >> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> >>
> >>>>>> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Outside US: 775-826-4344
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Knowledge is power.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Power corrupts.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Dark Fiber wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I can't see that being fair to bring up right now... What does that
> >>>>>>> tell people who want to get started today? Wait "X" amount of time
> >>>>>>> because their is a change coming down the line? If there is a major
> >>>>>>> change coming down the line why isn't this being told to us right
> >>>>>>>
> >> now?
> >>
> >>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Brad Ellis <brad_at_ccbootcamp.com
> >>>>>>> <mailto:brad_at_ccbootcamp.com>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Scott is comparing a grey-market program to the Cisco authorized
> >>>>>>>
> >> 360
> >>
> >>>>>>> learning program. There are some major changes coming to the
> CCIE
> >>>>>>> lab
> >>>>>>> exam. The Cisco 360 Program already has the "inside scoop" on
> the
> >>>>>>> changes coming down the pipe. The grey market folks don't have
> >>>>>>> that. If
> >>>>>>> you want to prepare for your lab exam properly, it's going to
> >>>>>>>
> >> become
> >>
> >>>>>>> more and more apparent that the 360 program is the way to go.
> (One
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>> the big reasons why we joined the program!)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This announcement is only one of many things to come. There will
> >>>>>>> be more
> >>>>>>> and more differentiators that keep making the Cisco 360 Learning
> >>>>>>> Program
> >>>>>>> increasingly advantageous as the best option for CCIE training
> >>>>>>> over grey
> >>>>>>> market competition.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> thanks,
> >>>>>>> Brad Ellis
> >>>>>>> CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
> >>>>>>> CCSI# 30482
> >>>>>>> CEO / President
> >>>>>>> CCBOOTCAMP - Cisco Learning Solutions Partner (CLSP)
> >>>>>>> Email: brad_at_ccbootcamp.com <mailto:brad_at_ccbootcamp.com>
> >>>>>>> Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> >>>>>>> International: +1-702-968-5100
> >>>>>>> Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> >>>>>>> FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> >>>>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>
> >>>>>>> [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>]
> On
> >>>>>>> Behalf Of
> >>>>>>> Scott Morris
> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:41 PM
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> > To: armylegionmedic_at_aol.com <mailto:armylegionmedic_at_aol.com>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Cc: darkfiber08_at_gmail.com <mailto:darkfiber08_at_gmail.com>;
> >>>>>>> dane.newman_at_gmail.com <mailto:dane.newman_at_gmail.com>;
> >>>>>>> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: cisco lab safe
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Excellent question on that. The CCIE Essentials, though, is
> >>>>>>>
> >> exactly
> >>
> >>>>>>> that from them, the workbooks + videos. So I was putting out
> the
> >>>>>>> option. It simply happened to be the least expensive option
> from
> >>>>>>> us.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> By the way, according to
> >>>>>>> https://cisco.hosted.jivesoftware.com/docs/DOC-5857, I was
> >>>>>>> incorrect on
> >>>>>>> my math. You must take ALL FOUR (4 x 349 = $1,400) AND score at
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> least
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 80% on one of them. So their minimum investment just became
> >>>>>>>
> >> $3,995
> >>
> >>>>>>> +
> >>>>>>> $1,400 = $5,395.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Slice it however you want. It's marketing, and I most certainly
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> won't
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> fault anyone for that! As always, people are capable of making
> >>>>>>> their
> >>>>>>> own decisions on things! Just do the math.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm not downplaying the program itself. I know too many of the
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> people
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> involved and respect their capabilities all around. Not all
> >>>>>>>
> >> vendors
> >>
> >>>>>>> selling the 360 will be the same, however, which puts a kludge
> >>>>>>>
> >> into
> >>
> >>>>>>> things... but as long as you know what you're getting into, you
> >>>>>>>
> >> are
> >>
> >>>>>>> welcome to select whichever flavor of apple works best for you!
> >>>>>>> Some
> >>>>>>> may be more expensive than others despite the pretty sign next
> to
> >>>>>>> them!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ;)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service
> Provider)
> >>>>>>> #4713,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> evil_at_ine.com <mailto:evil_at_ine.com>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com<
> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> >>>>>>>
> >> <
> >>
> >>>>>>> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Outside US: 775-826-4344
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Knowledge is power.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Power corrupts.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> armylegionmedic_at_aol.com <mailto:armylegionmedic_at_aol.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> > I mean, maybe this is just me, but the only price that was
> cheap
> >>>>>>> > enough to beat Cisco's deal was a CoD and Workkooks, so we
> arent
> >>>>>>> > really comparing Apples to Apples are we? If we were to look
> >>>>>>> apples to
> >>>>>>> > apples or maybe like a Granny Smith vs. Mt. Washington Apple,
> I
> >>>>>>> think
> >>>>>>> > that the Cisco 360 offer is looking pretty tempting. The only
> >>>>>>>
> >> part
> >>
> >>>>>>> > that I would have to really say competes is the free re-sits.
> >>>>>>> This is
> >>>>>>> > all IMO, but maybe I am misreading something.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> > From: Dark Fiber <darkfiber08_at_gmail.com
> >>>>>>> <mailto:darkfiber08_at_gmail.com>>
> >>>>>>> > To: Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com <mailto:smorris_at_ine.com>>
> >>>>>>> > Cc: Dane Newman <dane.newman_at_gmail.com
> >>>>>>> <mailto:dane.newman_at_gmail.com>>; Cisco certification
> >>>>>>> > <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>
> >>>>>>> > Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 3:25 pm
> >>>>>>> > Subject: Re: cisco lab safe
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > If I read that right $3500 and the price of a mock lab might
> be
> >>>>>>> worth
> >>>>>>> it for
> >>>>>>> > a $1400 lab voucher if you fail. Anyone else get the same or
> did
> >>>>>>>
> >> I
> >>
> >>>>>>> misread
> >>>>>>> > it?
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Scott Morris <
> smorris_at_ine.com
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> > <mailto:smorris_at_ine.com>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > > Ok.... So let's do some math on this...
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > CIERS1 = $3,995
> >>>>>>> > > CIERS2 = $4,500
> >>>>>>> > > Essentials = $4,550
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > Plus an Assessment lab (minimum 1, possibly more) = $349
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > So at a BARE MINIMUM you are looking at $3,995 + $349 =
> $4,345
> >>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>> > > have to spend in order to get that.
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > For INE's pricing, a bootcamp costs $2,995 (not including
> any
> >>>>>>> > > discounts). The mock lab workshop is $3,995 again not
> >>>>>>>
> >> counting
> >>
> >>>>>>> > > discounts. The lab workbook set + CoD bundle = $825 + 1,695
> >>>>>>>
> >> or
> >>
> >>>>>>> $2,520
> >>>>>>> > > (not including any discounts). A mock lab (minimum 1,
> >>>>>>>
> >> possibly
> >>
> >>>>>>> more) =
> >>>>>>> > > $129.
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > So on price point alone, you have a minimum comparable
> >>>>>>> spending (not
> >>>>>>> > > including discounts) of $2,649. That's a grand difference
> >>>>>>> there of
> >>>>>>> > > $1,696, so you can spring for another lab, not need
> >>>>>>> pre-qualification
> >>>>>>> > > AND save an extra $296 to use towards your
> >>>>>>> airfare/hotel/food/whatever....
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > Oh yeah, and you don't get re-sits in the 360 program, you
> can
> >>>>>>> attend
> >>>>>>> > > our classes as many times as you'd like to and whenever
> you'd
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> like
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> to.
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > So I'm really thinking that this kind of promotion alone is
> >>>>>>>
> >> not
> >>
> >>>>>>> going to
> >>>>>>> > > swing someone one way or the other, at least unless they
> don't
> >>>>>>> do
> >>>>>>> math.
> >>>>>>> > > But I'm sure if you work with our sales department, we would
> >>>>>>> be more
> >>>>>>> > > than happy to charge you more money and simply spring for a
> >>>>>>>
> >> lab
> >>
> >>>>>>> attempt
> >>>>>>> > > for you based on certain criteria and select vendors only.
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > If you have any questions on this, feel free to contact me
> >>>>>>> offline,
> >>>>>>> I'd
> >>>>>>> > > be more than happy to cover options with you. I don't see a
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> point
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>> > > dragging this on and on through a technical list (e.g.
> >>>>>>> non-marketing
> >>>>>>> list).
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service
> >>>>>>> Provider)
> >>>>>>> #4713,
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > evil_at_ine.com <mailto:evil_at_ine.com>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> > > >
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com<
> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> >>>>>>>
> >> <
> >>
> >>>>>>> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > Outside US: 775-826-4344
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > Knowledge is power.
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > Power corrupts.
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > Dane Newman wrote:
> >>>>>>> > > > I got the following email below from cisco. All I can say
> >>>>>>> is imo
> >>>>>>> this
> >>>>>>> > > will
> >>>>>>> > > > make it harder on 3rd party vendors sadly that do offer
> >>>>>>> quality
> >>>>>>> training.
> >>>>>>> > > > The chance to retake the lab for free is worth its weight
> in
> >>>>>>> gold
> >>>>>>> for all
> >>>>>>> > > > the stress relief it can bring.
> >>>>>>> > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > Dane
> >>>>>>> > > >
> >>>>>>> > > >
> >>>>>>> > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > Cisco Lab Safe Promotion: Protect Your Training Investment
> >>>>>>> > > > Learning_at_Cisco is pleased to introduce the Cisco Lab Safe
> >>>>>>> promotion. The
> >>>>>>> > > > Cisco Lab Safe promotion allows qualifying Cisco. 360
> >>>>>>>
> >> Learning
> >>
> >>>>>>> Program
> >>>>>>> > > for
> >>>>>>> > > > CCIE. Routing & Switching students who don't pass their
> >>>>>>> first CCIE
> >>>>>>> lab
> >>>>>>> > > exam
> >>>>>>> > > > attempt, to retake the CCIE lab exam (a $1,400 US Value)
> at
> >>>>>>>
> >> no
> >>
> >>>>>>> additional
> >>>>>>> > > > cost.
> >>>>>>> > > > The Cisco 360 Learning Program for R&S guides engineers
> who
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> have
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> three to
> >>>>>>> > > > five years of networking experience through an effective,
> >>>>>>> job-relevant,
> >>>>>>> > > and
> >>>>>>> > > > proven program to build expert-level skills and to prepare
> >>>>>>> for the
> >>>>>>> > > rigorous
> >>>>>>> > > > Cisco CCIE R&S certification exams. Together, the Cisco
> >>>>>>>
> >> 360
> >>
> >>>>>>> Learning
> >>>>>>> > > > Program for CCIE R&S and the Cisco Lab Safe promotion
> >>>>>>>
> >> provide
> >>
> >>>>>>> added
> >>>>>>> > > > assurance in the quality and value of your training
> >>>>>>> investment.
> >>>>>>> > > > How the Cisco Lab Safe Promotion Works:
> >>>>>>> > > > Students must meet the following criteria in order to be
> >>>>>>> eligible
> >>>>>>> for the
> >>>>>>> > > > Cisco Lab Safe promotion:
> >>>>>>> > > > A recommendation from their instructor
> >>>>>>> > > > Completed the Cisco 360 Learning Program for CCIE R&S
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Essentials
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Package
> >>>>>>> > > or
> >>>>>>> > > > a CIERS instructor-led workshop
> >>>>>>> > > > Scored 80% or better on one of the CIERS 1-4 performance
> >>>>>>> assessments
> >>>>>>> > > > Only select Authorized Cisco Learning Partners offer the
> >>>>>>> Cisco 360
> >>>>>>> > > Learning
> >>>>>>> > > > Program curriculum and Cisco Lab Safe promotion.
> >>>>>>> > > > Find out more about Cisco Lab Safe promotion and the
> >>>>>>>
> >> official
> >>
> >>>>>>> terms and
> >>>>>>> > > > conditions on the Cisco Learning Network.
> >>>>>>> > > >
> >>>>>>> > > > Subscribe to CiscoUnsubscribe from CiscoPrivacy Statement
> >>>>>>> > > > Subscribe to receive emails and newsletters from Cisco.
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> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> you're
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> already
> >>>>>>> > > a
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> >>>>>>>
> >> Cisco.
> >>
> >>>>>>> Please
> >>>>>>> > > allow
> >>>>>>> > > > 7-10 business days for changes to take effect.Read more
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> >>>>>>> privacy
> >>>>>>> > > > statement.
> >>>>>>> > > > Please do not reply to this email for support. To view
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> >>>>>>> > > commonly
> >>>>>>> > > > asked questions regarding the Cisco Certification Program
> or
> >>>>>>> to
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> >>>>>>> > > > tool at www.cisco.com/go/certsupport
> >>>>>>> <http://www.cisco.com/go/certsupport>.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> > > > Copyright (C) 2008, Cisco Systems, Inc. All rights
> reserved.
> >>>>>>> Cisco, the
> >>>>>>> > > > Cisco logo, and Cisco Systems are registered trademarks of
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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> >>>>>>> > > countries.
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> >>>>>>> > > > Corporate Marketing (SJC08/3/4)
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> >> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>
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-- 
Regards,
Joe Astorino - CCIE #24347 R&S
Technical Instructor - IPexpert, Inc.
Cell: +1.586.212.6107
Fax: +1.810.454.0130
Mailto:  jastorino_at_ipexpert.com
Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net