RE: OEQ NDA Question? from Joseph L. Brunner on 2009-09-06 (Ccielab archives 09/2009)

From: Joseph L. Brunner <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 00:05:34 -0400

That's not to say I'm not closing in on the Security Lab Mr. Darby :P

But I'll be teaching the Exchange MCITP: EM at the NY Business Institute
(NYBI.org) starting 9/14

If I was taller I would teach the loser NY knicks how to play basketball too
:)

-Joe

From: Darby Weaver [mailto:darby.weaver_at_gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 11:54 PM
To: Joseph L. Brunner
Cc: netwkengr_at_gmail.com; Brian McGahan; Tim; John Pelletier; rwest_at_zyedge.com;
dennis.worth_at_gmail.com; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com; Manoj (DS-1)Nanda
Subject: Re: OEQ NDA Question?

No argument Joe.

It's just you are the only CCIE I can think of who went back to doing Exchange
work and other networks besides Cisco almost as a preference. I'm sure there
are others. They just don't come to mind.

Now myself, I know that Exchange pays and I know stuff like Ironport and other
stuff integrates quite nicely with Exchange - so being a Cisco CCSP and an
MCSE+Exchange for several versions...

I can market this if/when I need to and I know the street rates and people do
love their email and im services among other things...

So no disrespect intended.

On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 11:42 PM, Joseph L. Brunner
<joe_at_affirmedsystems.com<mailto:joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>> wrote:
The point is they call me and I name my price when they can't get their
mailstore to mount on a Iscsi lun or they can't figure out any one of a 100
features such as UC or mailbox server clustering, that companies want today
and can't get to work reliably with any other vendor (save hiring a unix
expert who really does get $300 an hour)

Most exchange guys aren't very good. With Cisco, its either up or down, no one
knows about it, they use Dell or Force10 as IP is so commodity these days.
That's not to say some better Cisco products still have a home like CUCM 7 or
NAC, and people will still spend serious money on those.

Someone asked a few posts ago Who uses exchange?

WHO DOESN'T?

80% (at least) of the fortune 500 uses exchange. It's the best. Ever try to
setup mailbox journaling with Squirrel mail? Ever setup clustered mailboxes
that failover in 60 seconds if a server is down with Zimbra?

LOL Get real!

-----Original Message-----
From: netwkengr_at_gmail.com<mailto:netwkengr_at_gmail.com>
[mailto:netwkengr_at_gmail.com<mailto:netwkengr_at_gmail.com>]
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 11:30 PM
To: Joseph L. Brunner; Darby Weaver; Brian McGahan
Cc: Tim; John Pelletier; rwest_at_zyedge.com<mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>;
dennis.worth_at_gmail.com<mailto:dennis.worth_at_gmail.com>;
ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>; Manoj (DS-1)Nanda
Subject: Re: OEQ NDA Question?

Can't get to exchange without a few routers and switches in between most
exchange guys don't even try and get certified these days why ? What's the
point ?
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: "Joseph L. Brunner"
<joe_at_affirmedsystems.com<mailto:joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>>

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 23:23:19
To: Darby Weaver<darby.weaver_at_gmail.com<mailto:darby.weaver_at_gmail.com>>; Brian
McGahan<bmcgahan_at_ine.com<mailto:bmcgahan_at_ine.com>>
Cc: Tim<timcurci_at_roadrunner.com<mailto:timcurci_at_roadrunner.com>>; John
Pelletier<john.pelletier_at_altima-group.com<mailto:john.pelletier_at_altima-group.
com>>;
rwest_at_zyedge.com<mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com><rwest_at_zyedge.com<mailto:rwest_at_zyedg
e.com>>;
dennis.worth_at_gmail.com<mailto:dennis.worth_at_gmail.com><dennis.worth_at_gmail.com<
mailto:dennis.worth_at_gmail.com>>;
ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com><ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<
mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>; Manoj
(DS-1)Nanda<MNanda_at_drs-tsi.com<mailto:MNanda_at_drs-tsi.com>>
Subject: RE: OEQ NDA Question?

Get real... No one is paying $300 an hour in most cases for CCIE work these
days... Do you know how many clients I have??? I have replaced many CCIE's at
many institutions that don't even pay hourly rates any more.
They get CCIE's in NYC for $55 to $85 an hour.

Sure, we all know there are some well connected folks (and in some places I
am
one too) who can get more per hour, but with Hedge funds dropping like flies,
and dozens of CCIE's minted almost daily, you need to have
The cake others are trying to get a crumb off.... There are about 100 MCA
Exchange in the world.

Far more people use MS Exchange than Cisco routers.

(back to a force10 network redesign plan)

-Joe

From: Darby Weaver
[mailto:darby.weaver_at_gmail.com<mailto:darby.weaver_at_gmail.com>]
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 11:21 PM
To: Brian McGahan
Cc: Joseph L. Brunner; Tim; John Pelletier;
rwest_at_zyedge.com<mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>;
dennis.worth_at_gmail.com<mailto:dennis.worth_at_gmail.com>;
ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>; Manoj (DS-1)Nanda
Subject: Re: OEQ NDA Question?

Actually I thought the real questio is more like this:

Why does a CCIE need work as an Exchange Guru?

$180.00 per hour for Exchange in Florida (MS Architect)

$300.00 per hour for a CCIE (Network Architect)

I think those are pretty common rates and close to a GSA schedule here in the
poverty-stricken southeast.

But Joe's in the booming well-paid city of New York...

So we gotta ask?

On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Brian McGahan
<bmcgahan_at_ine.com<mailto:bmcgahan_at_ine.com><mailto:bmcgahan_at_ine.com<mailto:bmc
gahan_at_ine.com>>> wrote:
Joe,

The real question should be... who in their right mind would run Exchange in
the first place?!?

;)

Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593 (R&S/SP/Security)
bmcgahan_at_INE.com

Internetwork Expert, Inc.
http://www.INE.com<http://www.ine.com/><http://www.ine.com/>

On Sep 5, 2009, at 8:46 PM, "Joseph L. Brunner"
<joe_at_affirmedsystems.com<mailto:joe_at_affirmedsystems.com><mailto:joe_at_affirmeds
ystems.com<mailto:joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>>> wrote:
OH,

I thought it was time to discuss a real challenge instead of the QEQ's. In
the
time what about 5,000 people have become CCIE's with the QEQ's on the exam,
about
15 people have become MCA's.

Love or hate Microsoft- at least they provide a real challenge for those up
to
it.

-Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim
[mailto:timcurci_at_roadrunner.com<mailto:timcurci_at_roadrunner.com><mailto:timcur
ci_at_roadrunner.com<mailto:timcurci_at_roadrunner.com>>]
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:08 PM
To: 'John Pelletier';
rwest_at_zyedge.com<mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com><mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com<mailto:rwes
t_at_zyedge.com>>;
dennis.worth_at_gmail.com<mailto:dennis.worth_at_gmail.com><mailto:dennis.worth_at_gma
il.com<mailto:dennis.worth_at_gmail.com>>;
ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com><mailto:ccielab_at_groupstu
dy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>; 'Manoj (DS-1)Nanda';
Joseph L. Brunner
Subject: RE: OEQ NDA Question?

Why are we talking about Microsoft?

Did I miss the thread that invited that discussion?

-----Original Message-----
From:
nobody_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com><mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.
com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>>
[mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com><mailto:nobody_at_gro
upstudy.com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>>] On Behalf Of
John
Pelletier
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 7:27 PM
To:
timcurci_at_roadrunner.com<mailto:timcurci_at_roadrunner.com><mailto:timcurci_at_roadr
unner.com<mailto:timcurci_at_roadrunner.com>>;
rwest_at_zyedge.com<mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com><mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com<mailto:rwes
t_at_zyedge.com>>;
dennis.worth_at_gmail.com<mailto:dennis.worth_at_gmail.com><mailto:dennis.worth_at_gma
il.com<mailto:dennis.worth_at_gmail.com>>;
ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com><mailto:ccielab_at_groupstu
dy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>; Manoj (DS-1)Nanda;
Joseph L. Brunner
Subject: RE: OEQ NDA Question?

Well everyone has an opinion I would say this-the exchange cert below while
it
is exhaustive is a one trick pony which would be the equivalent of a
switching
only guru vs the CCIE lab that covers many technologies. On the OEQ the
questions cover the same breadth of topics while the exchange questions are
exactly that exchange questions.

--- On Sat, 9/5/09, Joseph L. Brunner
<joe_at_affirmedsystems.com<mailto:joe_at_affirmedsystems.com><mailto:joe_at_affirmeds
ystems.com<mailto:joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>>> wrote:

From: Joseph L. Brunner
<joe_at_affirmedsystems.com<mailto:joe_at_affirmedsystems.com><mailto:joe_at_affirmeds
ystems.com<mailto:joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>>>
Subject: RE: OEQ NDA Question?
To: "John Pelletier"
<john.pelletier_at_altima-group.com<mailto:john.pelletier_at_altima-group.com><mail
to:john.pelletier_at_altima-group.com<mailto:john.pelletier_at_altima-group.com>>>,
"timcurci_at_roadrunner.com<mailto:timcurci_at_roadrunner.com><mailto:timcurci_at_road
runner.com<mailto:timcurci_at_roadrunner.com>>"
<timcurci_at_roadrunner.com<mailto:timcurci_at_roadrunner.com><mailto:timcurci_at_road
runner.com<mailto:timcurci_at_roadrunner.com>>>,
"rwest_at_zyedge.com<mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com><mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com<mailto:rwe
st_at_zyedge.com>>"
<rwest_at_zyedge.com<mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com><mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com<mailto:rwe
st_at_zyedge.com>>>,
"dennis.worth_at_gmail.com<mailto:dennis.worth_at_gmail.com><mailto:dennis.worth_at_gm
ail.com<mailto:dennis.worth_at_gmail.com>>"
<dennis.worth_at_gmail.com<mailto:dennis.worth_at_gmail.com><mailto:dennis.worth_at_gm
ail.com<mailto:dennis.worth_at_gmail.com>>>,
"ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com><mailto:ccielab_at_groupst
udy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>"
<ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com><mailto:ccielab_at_groupst
udy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>>, " Manoj (DS-1)Nanda"
<MNanda_at_drs-tsi.com<mailto:MNanda_at_drs-tsi.com><mailto:MNanda_at_drs-tsi.com<mail
to:MNanda_at_drs-tsi.com>>>
Date: Saturday, September 5, 2009, 6:44 PM

Actually,

How do you think the MSFT MCA board review is compared to these QEQ's?

You have to speak and invoke passion and explain a complex solution, only to
be challenged on exact details of your proposed solution from a group of
industry veterans... all just to QUALIFY for a grueling 2 to 18 month
process
to achieve certification (if you ever achieve it). Some of the best Exchange
guys in the world who write widely used books and several 100 page blogs are
only Exchange Apprentices- and didn't not get their Exchange Ranger (MCA)
certifications...

I think Cisco is still quite a bit easier...

-Joe

-----Original Message-----
From:
nobody_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com><mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.
com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>>
[mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com><mailto:nobody_at_gro
upstudy.com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>>] On Behalf Of
John
Pelletier
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 6:36 PM
To:
timcurci_at_roadrunner.com<mailto:timcurci_at_roadrunner.com><mailto:timcurci_at_roadr
unner.com<mailto:timcurci_at_roadrunner.com>>;
rwest_at_zyedge.com<mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com><mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com<mailto:rwes
t_at_zyedge.com>>;
dennis.worth_at_gmail.com<mailto:dennis.worth_at_gmail.com><mailto:dennis.worth_at_gma
il.com<mailto:dennis.worth_at_gmail.com>>;
ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com><mailto:ccielab_at_groupstu
dy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>; Manoj (DS-1)Nanda
Subject: Re: OEQ NDA Question?

In theory they do-it is called the written. The OEQ thing is over the top,
if
they want to do this then get rid of the written at least. AND then add MPLS
and VPN to a R&S exam while having a SP and Security tracks stinks of a MS
style money grab. Oh and add to that get it done in 8 hrs.

--- On Sat, 9/5/09, Nanda, Manoj (DS-1)
<MNanda_at_drs-tsi.com<mailto:MNanda_at_drs-tsi.com><mailto:MNanda_at_drs-tsi.com<mail
to:MNanda_at_drs-tsi.com>>> wrote:

From: Nanda, Manoj (DS-1)
<MNanda_at_drs-tsi.com<mailto:MNanda_at_drs-tsi.com><mailto:MNanda_at_drs-tsi.com<mail
to:MNanda_at_drs-tsi.com>>>
Subject: Re: OEQ NDA Question?
To:
timcurci_at_roadrunner.com<mailto:timcurci_at_roadrunner.com><mailto:timcurci_at_roadr
unner.com<mailto:timcurci_at_roadrunner.com>>,
rwest_at_zyedge.com<mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com><mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com<mailto:rwes
t_at_zyedge.com>>,
dennis.worth_at_gmail.com<mailto:dennis.worth_at_gmail.com><mailto:dennis.worth_at_gma
il.com<mailto:dennis.worth_at_gmail.com>>,
ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com><mailto:ccielab_at_groupstu
dy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>
Date: Saturday, September 5, 2009, 5:06 PM

It would be great if they had a separtate comprehensive OEQ prometric test
rather than combining it with the lab to cause people have this freaking
expansive travel and lunch tough to digest paying from your hard earned
money!!

----- Original Message -----
From:
nobody_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com><mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.
com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>>
<nobody_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com><mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy
.com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>>>
To: 'Ryan West'
<rwest_at_zyedge.com<mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com><mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com<mailto:rwe
st_at_zyedge.com>>>; 'Dennis Worth'
<dennis.worth_at_gmail.com<mailto:dennis.worth_at_gmail.com><mailto:dennis.worth_at_gm
ail.com<mailto:dennis.worth_at_gmail.com>>>;
ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com><mailto:ccielab_at_groupstu
dy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>
<ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com><mailto:ccielab_at_groupst
udy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>>
Sent: Sat Sep 05 16:17:31 2009
Subject: RE: OEQ NDA Question?

It is just amazing that "people" did not see this coming a few months ago.
As I stated in May, the QEQs are not a statistically valid method of
testing. Many in this forum who already have multiple CCIEs (3 or 4)
disagreed... This is kind of funny. Cisco will be able to play games by
asking 4-5 subjective questions that they feel should be easily answered by
a qualified CCIE candidate (whatever that means). If Cisco is going to
continue with the QEQs, they should eliminate the $350 pre-qualification
exam for each track if they feel the pre-qualification exams have been
compromised or they should do more to secure the lab exam itself. Maybe the
pre-qualification exam should be a written (pencil and paper) proctored
exam.

-----Original Message-----
From:
nobody_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com><mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.
com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>>
[mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com><mailto:nobody_at_gro
upstudy.com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>>] On Behalf Of
Ryan
West
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 3:57 PM
To: Dennis Worth;
<ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com><mailto:ccielab_at_groupst
udy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>>
<ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com><mailto:ccielab_at_groupst
udy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>>
Subject: RE: OEQ NDA Question?

I've heard and wondered the same thing. Unfortunately, no one at Cisco is
likely to speak up and give us that answer. Part of the reason I have said
to never underestimate the OEQ's is that 4 months after the exam, I just
stumbled upon the answer to one of my OEQs. I had two questions that were
like this.

I have a little theory on this though. I believe students at all the
testing centers that are within reasonable timezones of one another have the
same set of OEQs. If only a couple of the students answer the question
correctly, it's counted as valid. If no one answers it correctly, then
those who are very close get credit. Something similar to blowing the curve
or discarding the outliers.

When I was speaking with the proctors at lunch, they both knew one of the
questions I was referring to and I could tell they thought it was bogus and
basically responded with "well, there are 3 others.." I know I was 2/3rd of
the way correct on one question and sort of almost practically somewhat
(scientific terms) correct on the other. I would not have expected most
CCIE candidates to get those two questions correct, one was better suited
for another track.

I would love to share my two, maybe one day when I get permission.

-ryan

Group,
I was thinking that if the questions that Cisco asked in OEQ's are not used
twice. Can't we share that information or least get clarity from other
engineers on how they would answer, so that we can learn to provide the
right solution next time?

Any thought's on this?

--
Dennis Worth
Blogs and organic groups at
http://www.ccie.net<http://www.ccie.net/><http://www.ccie.net/>

Received on Sun Sep 06 2009 - 00:05:34 ART

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