Re: Got a problem with a CCIE Lab?

The OEQ's have little to do with theory - 25% at the very very best.

They have everything to do with understanding how each protocol works in
some very specific common well-known and expected applications of the
protocol.

The idea that a "Well-Qualifiied CCIE Lab Candidate" will have little
trouble with the OEQ is correct and it is honest.

Let's clarify that a CCIE (an EXPERT) is not just a person who can simply
configure the protocol. Well maybe it was in the past... however, it have
been taken to a newer level...

Now this expert is expected to not only know the right answer but be able to
unerstand why the answer is correct.

That is the essense of any OEQ or the 75% that are based on practical
application of the various technologies considered "CORE" in any CCIE Lab
today.

No - a person who can configure Frame Relay perfectly or OSPF, or EIGRP, or
RIP, or BGP perfectly every time is not a CCIE by virtue of the just being
able to complete the action.

That is so last year... and before.

Now a CCIE is expected to be able to configure all of the above and more to
specification and also be able to understand what is happening and why it is
happening.

This is the essence of the OEQ.

When I looked at the OEQ's provided by vendors, I felt this was being
provided at the time. Since then some of the vendors have updated their
materials - I'll have to look again.

Since when they first hit the market they were essentially useless and
pedestrian:

Example: RFC's are not on the CCIE Labs or referenced as such by RFC -
Waste of time.

Port numbers and other pedestrian facts like administrative distances - CCNA
at best and something purely subject to memorization - Again.... waste of
time.

If the OEQ is loaded with any information that is on some kind of table or
can be bulk memorized - It is highly unlikely it will appear as an OEQ.
This is a waste of time.

Vendors offered question banks laden with these pedestrian facts and tables
and not to blame the vendors - many were already CCIE's for years and thus
would have little direct information on the nature of the OEQ unless their
students broke down and broke the NDA.

It is a testament to the integrity of the CCIE Lab's NDA and the integrity
of the students to have not done so.

However in the process there has been no product (again I'm going to review
one vendor's latest product that I purchased previously) to capture the
essence of the CCIE Lab - at least previously.

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:01 PM, Dark Fiber <darkfiber08_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> Memorizing theory doesn't make you an EXPERT by a long shot...
>
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Joseph L. Brunner <
> joe_at_affirmedsystems.com> wrote:
>
>> Good it should be hard.
>>
>> The QEQ's should make sure it's hard and that it's a fair and honest test
>> worthy of the rank of "EXPERT"
>>
>> The word "EXPERT" should be Haute Couture.
>>
>> "Firedog Certified Home Audio EXPERT" (speaking of a guy who knows where
>> his
>> favorite dvd's are in Circuit City
>> "Microsoft Solutions EXPERT" (speaking of a guy with an A+ certified
>> tech's
>> level knowledge of MS AD)
>>
>> I'm sick of people whining a test is hard. Let's make it harder...
>>
>>
>> From: Darby Weaver [mailto:ccie.weaver_at_gmail.com]
>> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:37 PM
>> To: Joseph L. Brunner
>> Cc: Cisco certification
>> Subject: Re: Got a problem with a CCIE Lab?
>>
>> Let me repeat:
>>
>> 5000 Support Calls per Month for CCIE Labs and the Security Guys (Look at
>> the
>> stats - like 1 new CCIE in how long since the new OEQ?...)
>>
>> Not everyone is getting through it as easy as we'd like Joe.
>>
>> The fake lab guys only have 6-9 of the labs - not all of them...
>>
>> Sorry they are fixing this...
>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 1:17 PM, Joseph L. Brunner
>> <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com<mailto:joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>> wrote:
>> Why is it 25,000 people can get through it without issues and a few people
>> keep going back and complaining about the lab and why it's unfair???
>>
>> Lets drop all these complaints and just study
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>
>> [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>] On Behalf
>> Of
>> Darby Weaver
>> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 12:59 PM
>> To: Cisco certification
>> Subject: Got a problem with a CCIE Lab?
>> Hmm? We read it here all the time. We read it in forums across the
>> Internet. People take the lab, spend $1400.00, and need to know "WHY?".
>> It
>> does not matter what the question is or what the problem was something
>> made
>> you leave the lab and now you need to know more. You need to know that
>> the
>> CCIE Lab Program cares about "YOU", the cutomer... Well my friends... they
>> do and they want you to know they do care about you, your lab experience,
>> and your concerns. I mentioned a lab problem I had and was told if I had
>> opened a case for it at the time, I would have received a FREE re-take for
>> a
>> problem like I encountered in the lab (my workstation rebooted due to a
>> worm
>> on my first lab attempt) - I did not complan about it till my 3rd lab
>> attempt so I guess I was late and I only used the lab feedback tool.
>>
>> I wish I had know the procedure. Apparently a lot fo people have issues
>> in
>> the lab and it does not matter which track either. The CCIE Support Team
>> is
>> there to help. It does not start with the proctors during the lab itself
>> and it does not end with the proctors in the lab itself.
>>
>> You have options and the right to be treated fairly, you are the customer
>> and the lady who heads the program told me this several times in person
>> yesterday over lunch while I was in Seattle. Now I'm telling you. It's
>> hearsay from me in this case, but it is something that might do one of the
>> following:
>>
>> 1. Nothing - maybe that is just the way it is, maybe it is a simple
>> misunderstanding, etc.
>>
>> 2. Maybe get you extra points for something?
>>
>> 3. Maybe alleviate extenuating circumstances?
>>
>> 4. Maybe get re-grade?
>>
>> 5. Maybe get a free re-take?
>>
>> 6. Maybe solve your issue, whatever it is, give you closure, and help you
>> understand that the entire CCIE Program Team stands for Integrity and
>> Fairness with regard to the CCIE Lab, not one time, but every time.
>> Got a problem with the CCIE
>> Lab?<http://darbylogs.blogspot.com/2009/08/got-problem-with-ccie-lab.html
>> >
>> I spoke at length with the CCIE Prorgam "owner" and I guess she's the boss
>> of Sara, who is the boss of... Maurillo, Jeff, and the CCIE Content
>> Development Team, Support, etc.
>>
>> I came away with one clear message:
>>
>> If you take a CCIE Lab Exam and have any issues...
>>
>> Write them asap or open a support ticket. Why?
>>
>> 1. They can help.
>>
>> 2. They will help.
>>
>> 3. They want to help.
>>
>> 4. They will do whatever they can to help.
>>
>> 5. They want you, the customer, to feel satisfied that they helped you.
>>
>> I was told they currently receive over 5000+ requests for support per
>> month
>> regarding the CCIE Lab and Sara's support team handles it all. Day in and
>> Day out.
>>
>> Questions about the lab do not end with the proctor in the lab, re-grade
>> questions, fairness questions, wording questions, etc.
>>
>> Nope! They go to the CCIE Heaven of Support and they get the
>> "authoritative
>> answer".
>>
>> Now I'm not saying it will always go your way. Most likely it won't.
>> However, you may get some sense of clarification and understanding of what
>> the problem was, why it is that way, and maybe a little peak on what you
>> can
>> do to improve yourself and overcome this misunderstanding in the future.
>>
>> It's like that.
>>
>> Hope this helps someone. Please go to
>> cisco.com/go/ccie<http://cisco.com/go/ccie> and look for the
>> latest links for support if you need it.
>>
>> These guys are true professionals in every sense and dedicated to the
>> integrity and fairness of the program. Give them a chance to help you make
>> the most out of their dedicated support staff if you feel you need them.
>>
>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net<http://www.ccie.net/>
>>
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>>
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Received on Fri Aug 07 2009 - 22:40:50 ART