RE: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking

>How can an "expert" level certification be the start of someone's professional career?

Because more and more "experts" are competing for the same "stale" jobs...

What used be a "great take home salary"- now wont pay off your underwater Wamu Mortgage...

So, if its "one more hurdle" you need to have in order to get in-

Expect to see a lot more people with really great running shoes and springy legs

-Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Ryan West
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:07 PM
To: Howard Hooper; Scott Morris
Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking Certification: Cisco Certified Architect

Wow. It bothers me that the CCIE is considered the start of a journey for some people. Maybe it was when I started in this field, 1998, but I have never considered it a start to anyone's journey. The cert seemed almost unobtainable at the time, I always thought I'd wait till I had 8 to 10 years experience and then _maybe_ I would be qualified. When I actually started studying for it, boy did I get a surprise. Cheating, stale exams, EASY exams. Why are first year college grads and people with no experience even allowed to sit for this exam? The CISSP, which is basically a vocabulary test, has a requirement for working experience and even if that was applied to the IE, it would seem a little light to me. How can an "expert" level certification be the start of someone's professional career?

The focus should be on the integrity of the IE, not some publicly announced next best thing. I sure hope I don't have an MSCE NT 4.0 plaque on my desk with a nifty 5 digit number after it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Howard Hooper
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:48 PM
To: Scott Morris
Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking Certification: Cisco Certified Architect

I love learning the things we do and being able to use them, there is
always something to work towards in our industry and this is one of the
reasons why I have chosen to. For me the CCIE I've found (and as has been
said many times before) is only the beginning of a very long journey,
depending on the path we choose there can be plenty of hurdles or hoops we
have to jump over or through along the way to get further, Cisco have just
added a couple more if you choose to go in their direction that's all.
You either enjoy or endure the ride.

I'm just wondering how much it costs? :o)

Howard Hooper CCIE #23470

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com> wrote:

> Is it different than being an Olympian versus a gold medalist?
>
> All Olympians are winners. They have all won a number of things,
> including their own national championships. they have all gone on
> further. Some failing miserably, others rising up. As a national
> champion, should they think of themselves as only being the 2nd highest
> level?
>
> The Architect is designed to cover both the implementation AND the
> design side of networking expertise. So from that view, you are still
> the top of the pinnacle specific to network implementation. So you
> haven't been demoted, you've been subsetted. :)
>
>
>
>
> *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
>
> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
>
> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
>
> evil_at_ine.com
>
>
> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>
> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
>
> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
>
> Outside US: 775-826-4344
>
>
> Knowledge is power.
>
> Power corrupts.
>
> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>
>
>
> Joe Astorino wrote:
> >
> > I absolutely agree with a lot of what you said Scott. For instance, I
> > absolutely appreciate how much I do not know. I absolutely agree that
> > we should always be learning more, and I'm all for that. I guess the
> > thing that is sort of eating me is that when I signed up for CCIE part
> > of the reason was gaining the knowledge. Part of the reason was the
> > classification of being in a group with the best. Now we are being
> > told that we are no longer the best. Cisco specifically says in the
> > announcement that it is higher than the CCIE. So I guess for me, it
> > kind of feels like a demotion to go from the highest level to the 2^nd
> > highest level.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Joe Astorino
> > CCIE #24347 (R&S)
> > Sr. Support Engineer -- IPexpert, Inc.
> > URL: http://www.IPexpert.com
> >
> >
> > *From:* Scott Morris [mailto:smorris_at_ine.com]
> > *Sent:* Monday, June 29, 2009 1:30 PM
> > *To:* Joe Astorino
> > *Cc:* 'Gary Duncanson'; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> > *Subject:* Re: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
> > Certification: Cisco Certified Architect
> >
> >
> >
> > Does it make you any less of an expert?
> >
> > One of the interesting things that the CCIE taught me (each of them
> > actually), is that there's a lot of stuff I don't know. Sometimes the
> > impact was more immediate than others (e.g. if I happened to have
> > failed!) but either way, you should begin to appreciate the scope of
> > what you know and realize how much out there that you don't know.
> >
> > With that perspective in mind, what's wrong with entertaining the idea
> > that the CCIE may or may not be the top of the pile? As long as the
> > standards are kept high, then I think it's an interesting evolution.
> > You should already be asking yourself 'What's next?'.
> >
> > So whether it's multiple CCIEs... Whether it's other vendor
> > certifications... Whether it's a design expert... Whether it's this
> > new architect. We now have more possibilities than we did before.
> >
> > Shouldn't our goal be to be the coolest folks on the planet?
> > Hopefully the standards are high enough that uncool people don't get
> > to be cool (lack of a better phrase!) but it's merely a path
> > available! Should be fun!
> >
> > Nobody called you an Associate Expert though. Don't feel bad. Now
> > when Cisco first came out with the career certs, I fully understand
> > the demotion... I had passed a test called the Cisco Design
> > Specialist. And was promised a T-shirt and cert. About 5-6 months
> > later, I got a letter saying I was now a Cisco Certified Design
> > Associate. Now, I don't know about you, but in my mind, an Associate
> > was not nearly as cool as a Specialist. :) THAT was a change. The
> > CCIE is not being removed, replaced or otherwise renamed and demoted.
> > We merely have another level added to demonstrate knowledge and
> > qualifications above and beyond.
> >
> > My two cents.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
> >
> > JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> >
> > JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
> >
> > evil_at_ine.com <mailto:evil_at_ine.com>
> >
> >
> >
> > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> >
> > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> >
> > Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> >
> > Outside US: 775-826-4344
> >
> >
> >
> > Knowledge is power.
> >
> > Power corrupts.
> >
> > Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
> >
> >
> > Joe Astorino wrote:
> >
> > Yeah really...I don't want to sound too upset here, but I feel like I
> just
> > got kicked in the balls. How do the rest of you CCIEs out there feel
> about
> > this announcement, since in my opinion we have all essentially been
> demoted?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Joe Astorino
> > CCIE #24347 (R&S)
> > Sr. Support Engineer - IPexpert, Inc.
> > URL: http://www.IPexpert.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gary Duncanson [mailto:gary.duncanson_at_googlemail.com]
> > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:38 PM
> > To: Joe Astorino
> > Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> > Subject: Re: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
> > Certification: Cisco Certified Architect
> >
> > I give up too. I'm just way too busy working as a Network Designer to
> keep
> > up with all that stuff!
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Joe Astorino" <jastorino_at_ipexpert.com> <mailto:
> jastorino_at_ipexpert.com>
> > To: "'Mike Kraus (mikraus)'" <mikraus_at_cisco.com> <mailto:
> mikraus_at_cisco.com>; <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com> <mailto:
> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:28 PM
> > Subject: RE: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
> > Certification: Cisco Certified Architect
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I give up...
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Joe Astorino
> >
> > CCIE #24347 (R&S)
> >
> > Sr. Support Engineer - IPexpert, Inc.
> >
> > URL: http://www.IPexpert.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com> [mailto:
> nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Kraus (mikraus)
> >
> > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 11:16 AM
> >
> > To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> >
> > Subject: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
> >
> > Certification: Cisco Certified Architect
> >
> >
> >
> > http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/2009/prod_062909.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >
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> >
> >
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> >
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Received on Mon Jun 29 2009 - 18:00:20 ART