Re: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking

My MCSE obtained in 1999 is handily placed for when I get my five digits.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan West" <rwest_at_zyedge.com>
To: "Howard Hooper" <howard.hooper_at_gmail.com>; "Scott Morris"
<smorris_at_ine.com>
Cc: <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 9:06 PM
Subject: RE: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
Certification: Cisco Certified Architect

> Wow. It bothers me that the CCIE is considered the start of a journey for
> some people. Maybe it was when I started in this field, 1998, but I have
> never considered it a start to anyone's journey. The cert seemed almost
> unobtainable at the time, I always thought I'd wait till I had 8 to 10
> years experience and then _maybe_ I would be qualified. When I actually
> started studying for it, boy did I get a surprise. Cheating, stale exams,
> EASY exams. Why are first year college grads and people with no
> experience even allowed to sit for this exam? The CISSP, which is
> basically a vocabulary test, has a requirement for working experience and
> even if that was applied to the IE, it would seem a little light to me.
> How can an "expert" level certification be the start of someone's
> professional career?
>
> The focus should be on the integrity of the IE, not some publicly
> announced next best thing. I sure hope I don't have an MSCE NT 4.0
> plaque on my desk with a nifty 5 digit number after it.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Howard Hooper
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:48 PM
> To: Scott Morris
> Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
> Certification: Cisco Certified Architect
>
> I love learning the things we do and being able to use them, there is
> always something to work towards in our industry and this is one of the
> reasons why I have chosen to. For me the CCIE I've found (and as has been
> said many times before) is only the beginning of a very long journey,
> depending on the path we choose there can be plenty of hurdles or hoops we
> have to jump over or through along the way to get further, Cisco have just
> added a couple more if you choose to go in their direction that's all.
> You either enjoy or endure the ride.
>
> I'm just wondering how much it costs? :o)
>
>
> Howard Hooper CCIE #23470
>
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com> wrote:
>
>> Is it different than being an Olympian versus a gold medalist?
>>
>> All Olympians are winners. They have all won a number of things,
>> including their own national championships. they have all gone on
>> further. Some failing miserably, others rising up. As a national
>> champion, should they think of themselves as only being the 2nd highest
>> level?
>>
>> The Architect is designed to cover both the implementation AND the
>> design side of networking expertise. So from that view, you are still
>> the top of the pinnacle specific to network implementation. So you
>> haven't been demoted, you've been subsetted. :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
>>
>> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
>>
>> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
>>
>> evil_at_ine.com
>>
>>
>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>>
>> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
>>
>> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
>>
>> Outside US: 775-826-4344
>>
>>
>> Knowledge is power.
>>
>> Power corrupts.
>>
>> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>>
>>
>>
>> Joe Astorino wrote:
>> >
>> > I absolutely agree with a lot of what you said Scott. For instance, I
>> > absolutely appreciate how much I do not know. I absolutely agree that
>> > we should always be learning more, and I'm all for that. I guess the
>> > thing that is sort of eating me is that when I signed up for CCIE part
>> > of the reason was gaining the knowledge. Part of the reason was the
>> > classification of being in a group with the best. Now we are being
>> > told that we are no longer the best. Cisco specifically says in the
>> > announcement that it is higher than the CCIE. So I guess for me, it
>> > kind of feels like a demotion to go from the highest level to the 2^nd
>> > highest level.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Joe Astorino
>> > CCIE #24347 (R&S)
>> > Sr. Support Engineer -- IPexpert, Inc.
>> > URL: http://www.IPexpert.com
>> >
>> >
>> > *From:* Scott Morris [mailto:smorris_at_ine.com]
>> > *Sent:* Monday, June 29, 2009 1:30 PM
>> > *To:* Joe Astorino
>> > *Cc:* 'Gary Duncanson'; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>> > *Subject:* Re: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
>> > Certification: Cisco Certified Architect
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Does it make you any less of an expert?
>> >
>> > One of the interesting things that the CCIE taught me (each of them
>> > actually), is that there's a lot of stuff I don't know. Sometimes the
>> > impact was more immediate than others (e.g. if I happened to have
>> > failed!) but either way, you should begin to appreciate the scope of
>> > what you know and realize how much out there that you don't know.
>> >
>> > With that perspective in mind, what's wrong with entertaining the idea
>> > that the CCIE may or may not be the top of the pile? As long as the
>> > standards are kept high, then I think it's an interesting evolution.
>> > You should already be asking yourself 'What's next?'.
>> >
>> > So whether it's multiple CCIEs... Whether it's other vendor
>> > certifications... Whether it's a design expert... Whether it's this
>> > new architect. We now have more possibilities than we did before.
>> >
>> > Shouldn't our goal be to be the coolest folks on the planet?
>> > Hopefully the standards are high enough that uncool people don't get
>> > to be cool (lack of a better phrase!) but it's merely a path
>> > available! Should be fun!
>> >
>> > Nobody called you an Associate Expert though. Don't feel bad. Now
>> > when Cisco first came out with the career certs, I fully understand
>> > the demotion... I had passed a test called the Cisco Design
>> > Specialist. And was promised a T-shirt and cert. About 5-6 months
>> > later, I got a letter saying I was now a Cisco Certified Design
>> > Associate. Now, I don't know about you, but in my mind, an Associate
>> > was not nearly as cool as a Specialist. :) THAT was a change. The
>> > CCIE is not being removed, replaced or otherwise renamed and demoted.
>> > We merely have another level added to demonstrate knowledge and
>> > qualifications above and beyond.
>> >
>> > My two cents.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider)
>> > #4713,
>> >
>> > JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
>> >
>> > JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
>> >
>> > evil_at_ine.com <mailto:evil_at_ine.com>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>> >
>> > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
>> >
>> > Toll Free: 877-224-8987
>> >
>> > Outside US: 775-826-4344
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Knowledge is power.
>> >
>> > Power corrupts.
>> >
>> > Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>> >
>> >
>> > Joe Astorino wrote:
>> >
>> > Yeah really...I don't want to sound too upset here, but I feel like I
>> just
>> > got kicked in the balls. How do the rest of you CCIEs out there feel
>> about
>> > this announcement, since in my opinion we have all essentially been
>> demoted?
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Joe Astorino
>> > CCIE #24347 (R&S)
>> > Sr. Support Engineer - IPexpert, Inc.
>> > URL: http://www.IPexpert.com
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Gary Duncanson [mailto:gary.duncanson_at_googlemail.com]
>> > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:38 PM
>> > To: Joe Astorino
>> > Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>> > Subject: Re: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
>> > Certification: Cisco Certified Architect
>> >
>> > I give up too. I'm just way too busy working as a Network Designer to
>> keep
>> > up with all that stuff!
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Joe Astorino" <jastorino_at_ipexpert.com> <mailto:
>> jastorino_at_ipexpert.com>
>> > To: "'Mike Kraus (mikraus)'" <mikraus_at_cisco.com> <mailto:
>> mikraus_at_cisco.com>; <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com> <mailto:
>> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>> > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:28 PM
>> > Subject: RE: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
>> > Certification: Cisco Certified Architect
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I give up...
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Joe Astorino
>> >
>> > CCIE #24347 (R&S)
>> >
>> > Sr. Support Engineer - IPexpert, Inc.
>> >
>> > URL: http://www.IPexpert.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> >
>> > From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com> [mailto:
>> nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > Kraus (mikraus)
>> >
>> > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 11:16 AM
>> >
>> > To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>> >
>> > Subject: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
>> >
>> > Certification: Cisco Certified Architect
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/2009/prod_062909.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> >
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> > 05:54:00
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>> >
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>> > 05:54:00
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>> > 06/29/09 05:54:00
>>
>>
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>> _______________________________________________________________________
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>
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Received on Mon Jun 29 2009 - 21:31:40 ART