Re: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking

Ah sorry if I caused any confusion. I meant my journey not yours. I also
could have 'worded' my email more accurately in places as I meant *pursuing
*the CCIE is the beginning of a very long journey i.e. from start to finish
and beyond.
Thanks for coming back so quickly with your opinion though

Kind regards

Howard

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Ryan West <rwest_at_zyedge.com> wrote:

> Wow. It bothers me that the CCIE is considered the start of a journey for
> some people. Maybe it was when I started in this field, 1998, but I have
> never considered it a start to anyone's journey. The cert seemed almost
> unobtainable at the time, I always thought I'd wait till I had 8 to 10 years
> experience and then _maybe_ I would be qualified. When I actually started
> studying for it, boy did I get a surprise. Cheating, stale exams, EASY
> exams. Why are first year college grads and people with no experience even
> allowed to sit for this exam? The CISSP, which is basically a vocabulary
> test, has a requirement for working experience and even if that was applied
> to the IE, it would seem a little light to me. How can an "expert" level
> certification be the start of someone's professional career?
>
> The focus should be on the integrity of the IE, not some publicly announced
> next best thing. I sure hope I don't have an MSCE NT 4.0 plaque on my desk
> with a nifty 5 digit number after it.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Howard Hooper
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:48 PM
> To: Scott Morris
> Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
> Certification: Cisco Certified Architect
>
> I love learning the things we do and being able to use them, there is
> always something to work towards in our industry and this is one of the
> reasons why I have chosen to. For me the CCIE I've found (and as has been
> said many times before) is only the beginning of a very long journey,
> depending on the path we choose there can be plenty of hurdles or hoops we
> have to jump over or through along the way to get further, Cisco have just
> added a couple more if you choose to go in their direction that's all.
> You either enjoy or endure the ride.
>
> I'm just wondering how much it costs? :o)
>
>
> Howard Hooper CCIE #23470
>
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com> wrote:
>
> > Is it different than being an Olympian versus a gold medalist?
> >
> > All Olympians are winners. They have all won a number of things,
> > including their own national championships. they have all gone on
> > further. Some failing miserably, others rising up. As a national
> > champion, should they think of themselves as only being the 2nd highest
> > level?
> >
> > The Architect is designed to cover both the implementation AND the
> > design side of networking expertise. So from that view, you are still
> > the top of the pinnacle specific to network implementation. So you
> > haven't been demoted, you've been subsetted. :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
> >
> > JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> >
> > JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
> >
> > evil_at_ine.com
> >
> >
> > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> >
> > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> >
> > Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> >
> > Outside US: 775-826-4344
> >
> >
> > Knowledge is power.
> >
> > Power corrupts.
> >
> > Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
> >
> >
> >
> > Joe Astorino wrote:
> > >
> > > I absolutely agree with a lot of what you said Scott. For instance, I
> > > absolutely appreciate how much I do not know. I absolutely agree that
> > > we should always be learning more, and I'm all for that. I guess the
> > > thing that is sort of eating me is that when I signed up for CCIE part
> > > of the reason was gaining the knowledge. Part of the reason was the
> > > classification of being in a group with the best. Now we are being
> > > told that we are no longer the best. Cisco specifically says in the
> > > announcement that it is higher than the CCIE. So I guess for me, it
> > > kind of feels like a demotion to go from the highest level to the 2^nd
> > > highest level.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Joe Astorino
> > > CCIE #24347 (R&S)
> > > Sr. Support Engineer -- IPexpert, Inc.
> > > URL: http://www.IPexpert.com
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* Scott Morris [mailto:smorris_at_ine.com]
> > > *Sent:* Monday, June 29, 2009 1:30 PM
> > > *To:* Joe Astorino
> > > *Cc:* 'Gary Duncanson'; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> > > *Subject:* Re: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
> > > Certification: Cisco Certified Architect
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Does it make you any less of an expert?
> > >
> > > One of the interesting things that the CCIE taught me (each of them
> > > actually), is that there's a lot of stuff I don't know. Sometimes the
> > > impact was more immediate than others (e.g. if I happened to have
> > > failed!) but either way, you should begin to appreciate the scope of
> > > what you know and realize how much out there that you don't know.
> > >
> > > With that perspective in mind, what's wrong with entertaining the idea
> > > that the CCIE may or may not be the top of the pile? As long as the
> > > standards are kept high, then I think it's an interesting evolution.
> > > You should already be asking yourself 'What's next?'.
> > >
> > > So whether it's multiple CCIEs... Whether it's other vendor
> > > certifications... Whether it's a design expert... Whether it's this
> > > new architect. We now have more possibilities than we did before.
> > >
> > > Shouldn't our goal be to be the coolest folks on the planet?
> > > Hopefully the standards are high enough that uncool people don't get
> > > to be cool (lack of a better phrase!) but it's merely a path
> > > available! Should be fun!
> > >
> > > Nobody called you an Associate Expert though. Don't feel bad. Now
> > > when Cisco first came out with the career certs, I fully understand
> > > the demotion... I had passed a test called the Cisco Design
> > > Specialist. And was promised a T-shirt and cert. About 5-6 months
> > > later, I got a letter saying I was now a Cisco Certified Design
> > > Associate. Now, I don't know about you, but in my mind, an Associate
> > > was not nearly as cool as a Specialist. :) THAT was a change. The
> > > CCIE is not being removed, replaced or otherwise renamed and demoted.
> > > We merely have another level added to demonstrate knowledge and
> > > qualifications above and beyond.
> > >
> > > My two cents.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider)
> #4713,
> > >
> > > JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> > >
> > > JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
> > >
> > > evil_at_ine.com <mailto:evil_at_ine.com>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > >
> > > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> > >
> > > Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> > >
> > > Outside US: 775-826-4344
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Knowledge is power.
> > >
> > > Power corrupts.
> > >
> > > Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
> > >
> > >
> > > Joe Astorino wrote:
> > >
> > > Yeah really...I don't want to sound too upset here, but I feel like I
> > just
> > > got kicked in the balls. How do the rest of you CCIEs out there feel
> > about
> > > this announcement, since in my opinion we have all essentially been
> > demoted?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Joe Astorino
> > > CCIE #24347 (R&S)
> > > Sr. Support Engineer - IPexpert, Inc.
> > > URL: http://www.IPexpert.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Gary Duncanson [mailto:gary.duncanson_at_googlemail.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:38 PM
> > > To: Joe Astorino
> > > Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
> > > Certification: Cisco Certified Architect
> > >
> > > I give up too. I'm just way too busy working as a Network Designer to
> > keep
> > > up with all that stuff!
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Joe Astorino" <jastorino_at_ipexpert.com> <mailto:
> > jastorino_at_ipexpert.com>
> > > To: "'Mike Kraus (mikraus)'" <mikraus_at_cisco.com> <mailto:
> > mikraus_at_cisco.com>; <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com> <mailto:
> > ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:28 PM
> > > Subject: RE: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
> > > Certification: Cisco Certified Architect
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I give up...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Joe Astorino
> > >
> > > CCIE #24347 (R&S)
> > >
> > > Sr. Support Engineer - IPexpert, Inc.
> > >
> > > URL: http://www.IPexpert.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >
> > > From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>
> [mailto:
> > nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Kraus (mikraus)
> > >
> > > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 11:16 AM
> > >
> > > To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> > >
> > > Subject: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
> > >
> > > Certification: Cisco Certified Architect
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/2009/prod_062909.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > >
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> > >
> > > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.12.93/2206 - Release Date:
> > 06/29/09
> > >
> > > 05:54:00
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > >
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> > > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.12.93/2206 - Release Date:
> > 06/29/09
> > > 05:54:00
> > >
> > >
> > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________________________________
> > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.12.93/2206 - Release Date:
> > > 06/29/09 05:54:00
> >
> >
> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html

Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Mon Jun 29 2009 - 21:17:25 ART