Re: New Developments with Cisco 360

Glad someone else picked up on the "elitist" remark... I have 10 years of experience, I used the 360 program, none of you are worth of my accomplishment... Wah Wah Wah

And lets hit on another thing, there is no way Verizon is paying for all the 360's classes and then doing free advertising on Cisco 360 commercial, opps webinar...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jared Scrivener" <jscrivener_at_ipexpert.com>
To: "Persio Pucci" <persio_at_gmail.com>, "Cisco certification" <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:12:38 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: New Developments with Cisco 360

I have to jump in here just on one comment: "worthy" is defined by passing
the lab that Cisco set. To imply that because someone was taken from having
perhaps only CCNA knowledge to a CCIE, like our products do, makes them
unworthy is offensive and degrades the CCIE. If the exam is too easy in that
we can teach anyone to pass, then I encourage the proctors to make it
harder. Our course materials don't discriminate - we'll take anyone to the
goal, not just the chosen few. That's my 2 cents.

On 6/11/09 10:16 PM, "Persio Pucci" <persio_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> I am one 360 alumni from Verizon and would like to say a couple of words
> here...
>
> I personally think the 360 program is very good and has proven that it will
> help you pass the lab if you are ready to do so. I'll give you the example
> of my 360 class mates. Out of the 6 people that attended the bootcamps and
> used all the 360 material, 4 (including myself) passed on their first try
> (mine was actually the second try, as I have failed the lab 7 years ago, on
> a totally different lab era, and for that reason I am considering this a
> first try). One of the classmates failed twice so far, and the last guy did
> not attempt the lab yet. All but one of us have 10 years or so of experience
> with Cisco and IP networking in general. The guy that flunked had some
> personal problems at the time and did not that full advantage of the program
> material and bootcamps, while the guy that did not attempt it yet is just
> not up to the challenge yet as he still lacks some experience and
> exposure...
>
> What I mean here is that the 360 program made the difference for the ones
> that were ready to the lab, while it will not work miracles for somebody
> that is just not ready for it.
>
> And before anybody start trowing stones at me, we did have access to other
> vendors and we decided to go with the 360 as it seemed to be more
> comprehensive and focused than the other.
>
> I know that there are a lot of other vendors out there, and there might be
> some good products indeed. There are even products that will take you by the
> hand and teach you everything from scratch, which in my opinion is something
> terrible as it is just helping somebody not worthy to get a CCIE (like lots
> of people we are always flaming around GS).
>
> Is the 360 the most expensive? Maybe. But if the company is willing to pay
> for it to have people certified, and if it is working for the company (that
> 1.25 pass rate speaks for itself) I don't see why not use it. Let's just
> remember what we are discussing here, if the 360 is good or not or if it is
> too expensive for the "road warrior" or if which one is better. Every father
> will always say their kid is prettier...
>
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Alexei Monastyrnyi
> <alexeim73_at_gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi pal.
>>
>> 360 is focused on passing rate is just what Cisco says itself. Of course
>> not only on passing rate but on that one amongst other things. My major
>> point of that post was in saying that many bigger companies leans towards
>> what is approved and supported by the vendor which gear they use most. Now
>> when 360 is no the market, they may love it.
>>
>> I am not truing to offend someone here by comparing their products or
>> services with A-class no not. Maybe it was a bad example of quality vs
>> price. I am just saying here that there will always be someone wiling to pay
>> more just to avoid to spend an extra time on research and understanding of
>> that similar quality might be bought for less.
>>
>> A.
>>
>> Group Study wrote:
>>
>>> A -
>>>
>>> See comments inline....interesting post -
>>> On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Alexei Monastyrnyi
>>> <alexeim73_at_gmail.com<mailto:
>>> alexeim73_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Joe.
>>>
>>> I think you have spotted that right regarding those who would take
>>> all costs on their personal budget. I would say Cisco 360 is
>>> mostly focused on large business clients AND on increasing the
>>> passing rate.
>>>
>>>
>>> How do you back up that that "360 is focused on passing rate"....are you
>>> suggesting that you can now "buy the CCIE" certification if you take the 360
>>> training, or that other vendor products don't assist you in
>>> passing?.....Again - Cisco is "SELLING" something....don't you think they're
>>> going to (like all vendors do) position a few positive success stories for
>>> their perspective clients to see / read / hear?...How (if you know) do you
>>> suggest the 360 program is a better solution than the "End-to-End" programs
>>> available by other "non-360" vendors?....I would suggest that the overall
>>> success of their program be reviewed....as well as measurements made on the
>>> quality and quantity - compared to price.....*IF* a particular vendor had
>>> more overall success stories (maybe 3 or 4 x more), a much more complete and
>>> thorough product - and it was more cost-effective....would that constitute
>>> as "better"?.....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you have attended that CCIE RS 4.0 update webinar (should also
>>> be available on demand now), you might catch two ideas.
>>>
>>> - Verizon success story with Cisco 360 program. In short, they
>>> have been using Cisco 360 program internally for quite a while and
>>> have already certified about 15 candidates with average pass score
>>> within this small group being 1.2. The Verison manager responsible
>>> for this training said there is already more than 30 Verizon
>>> engineers queuing for this program
>>>
>>>
>>> - One of the CCIE program members said that for now we have around
>>> 20 000 CCIEs around the Globe, they would aim to have 30 000
>>> within next year (if I remember this sentence right). And the
>>> reason behind it would be a technological growth and business
>>> needs for those 30K CCIEs on the marker right now.
>>>
>>> Now you put two and two together by yourself. Do they target
>>> self-study candidates and such? IMHO they don't. As Bruce have
>>> mentioned Cisco 360 is much more structural and predictive. Now
>>> when it is unbundled, it becomes more attractive for enterprises
>>> to train CCIEs in-house so to say.
>>>
>>> I don't believe it will be popular amongst GS members. If I worked
>>> for Verizon for example and still pursued my CCIE I would queue
>>> for that program. When I were doing my CCIE studies my company
>>> supported me in buying used routers and books but buying bootcamps
>>> and other full-day like training were off the list.
>>>
>>> If I had a choice to study nights vs studying during working hours
>>> I would sure pick the second one. Wouldn't you?
>>>
>>> It's like Mercedes A-class. Those who can afford it may enjoy it.
>>> Those who cannot - let's not get bored or frustrated by that fact
>>> that they pass us on a highway and concentrate on where we drive
>>> to. :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> A - Surely you're not suggesting the "360" is a Mercedes....and other,
>>> proven, vendor training materials are sub-par - are you? ;-) Obviously -
>>> I'd have to completely disagree....You can't (and shouldn't) use the analogy
>>> comparing a particular CCIE training product to a "Mercedes A-class" just
>>> because it costs more....(there's a reason the Mercedes A-class costs more
>>> than the "average vehicle"...
>>>
>>> Just my .02 AUD.
>>> A.
>>>
>>> Joe Astorino wrote:
>>>
>>> As a working class guy going through things from the
>>> perspective of a student a few months ago, I never even
>>> considered the 360 program, because of price. In fact, I
>>> posted that on my blog at the time...why would anybody want to
>>> go for the 360 program unless they were rich, or their company
>>> funded it? At least that was my perspective. IPexpert, INE,
>>> and Narbik among others have proven material that works, that
>>> is taught by world class leading instructors that have great
>>> reputations, and is way cheaper. Am I missing something here?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Joe Astorino CCIE #24347 (R&S)
>>> Sr. Support Engineer b IPexpert, Inc.
>>> URL: http://www.IPexpert.com
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>
>>> [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>]
>>> On Behalf Of Dark Fiber
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:26 PM
>>> To: Andrew Bruce Caslow
>>> Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>> Subject: Re: New Developments with Cisco 360
>>>
>>> I don't think anyone could honestly question the quality of
>>> the material. I think what alot of us question is the cost.
>>> Now I would have to think that is set by Cisco themselves.
>>> This is what hurts the program in the long run I believe.
>>> CIERS Basic Package (CIERSBASIC) is $4500.
>>> IPX: Blended Learning Solution $1500
>>> INE: End to End $2500
>>> Narbik: $2500 and free retakes, even after you pass your lab
>>> for refreshers!
>>>
>>> If I had to start over today with all my material the cost and
>>> value associated with that cost would knock the 360 program
>>> right off the list :(
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Andrew Bruce Caslow" <abcaslow_at_netmasterclass.net
>>> <mailto:abcaslow_at_netmasterclass.net>>
>>> To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>> Cc: "Andrew Bruce Caslow" <abcaslow_at_netmasterclass.net
>>> <mailto:abcaslow_at_netmasterclass.net>>
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:31:43 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
>>> Eastern
>>> Subject: New Developments with Cisco 360
>>>
>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>
>>> There have been some recent discussions on the Cisco 360
>>> program on
>>> GroupStudy. I wanted to take a minute and briefly discuss some new
>>> developments with Cisco 360.
>>>
>>> [X-post: http://blog.netmasterclass.net/?p=36 ]
>>>
>>> CISCO 360 IS UNBUNDLED
>>>
>>> All of Cisco 360 products have become unbundled. This
>>> means
>>> you can
>>> purchase only the Cisco 360 component you need when you need
>>> them. With
>>> this said, one can begin purchasing individual components of
>>> Cisco 360 for
>>> just a few hundred dollars. As you go through the Cisco 360
>>> program, you can
>>> pay as you go if you'd like. And of course, you can use your
>>> Cisco Learning
>>> Credits to pay for Cisco 360 products and services.
>>>
>>> This unbundling provides lots of flexibility for students
>>> with
>>> limited
>>> funds. Not only does it provide purchasing flexibility, it
>>> allows for CCIE
>>> students to mix and match Cisco 360 purchases with other
>>> vendors CCIE
>>> learning products such as InternetworkExpert and Narbik's
>>> workbook. I think
>>> we all agree, no one has a monopoly on great ideas. The "open
>>> architecture"
>>> of Cisco 360 allows for students to purchase only the
>>> components they want
>>> from Cisco 360 at the time they want. Students then have the
>>> option to use
>>> whatever other CCIE learning resources they want.
>>> CISCO 360 HAS 25 CCIE INSTRUCTORS AND MENTORS
>>> Furthermore, these individual components can be bundled
>>> with
>>> training
>>> courses and on-line mentoring services to create a complete
>>> end-to-end CCIE
>>> preparation program. One very exciting aspect of the Cisco 360
>>> program is
>>> that there are now 25 Cisco 360 certified instructors and
>>> mentors spread all
>>> over the world. And I must say, each one of them is a
>>> world-class instructor
>>> and mentor dedicated to delivering the very best in CCIE
>>> training and
>>> coaching. It has been a real pleasure working with these 25
>>> instructors and
>>> mentors. Many of these new instructors were trained by Bob
>>> Sinclair, who
>>> has been a frequent contributor to GroupStudy over the years.
>>> It is my
>>> opinion that Bob is the very best CCIE instructor in the world
>>> and Bob
>>> speaks very highly of the many Cisco 360 instructors he has
>>> trained in the
>>> US, Europe, the Middle East and Asia. Bob will be going to
>>> Japan in a week
>>> to train seven more Cisco 360 instructors.
>>>
>>> With the unbundling of Cisco 360 products and the large
>>> supply
>>> of 25, soon
>>> to be over 30, Cisco 360 instructors/mentors, the price of
>>> quality CCIE
>>> training should be falling. While many grey market CCIE
>>> companies provide
>>> excellent products and services, none of them have 25-30 CCIE
>>> instructors/mentors. This will dramatically change the CCIE
>>> training
>>> landscape. Currently, there are only a handful of CCIE
>>> instructors and no
>>> structured CCIE mentoring services in the CCIE marketplace.
>>> With Cisco 360,
>>> the pool of instructors and mentors is dramatically increased
>>> and this will
>>> give anyone that is pursuing their CCIE many more training and
>>> mentoring
>>> options. Competition and choices among learning solutions is a
>>> very good
>>> thing for CCIE students!
>>> CISCO 360 GRADED ASSESSMENT LABS
>>>
>>> A suggested starting point in using Cisco 360 products is
>>> to
>>> purchase the
>>> Cisco 360 graded assessment labs individually or in bundles.
>>> These graded
>>> assessment labs provide an excellent measurement for one's
>>> level of
>>> readiness to attempt the actual CCIE lab. They also provide
>>> voluminous
>>> feedback to maximize the learning experience. These graded
>>> assessment labs
>>> are most certainly not "unproven technology". They apply the
>>> former CHECKiT
>>> lab technology of NetMasterClass. This technology has been
>>> deployed and
>>> developed over the last five years. To my knowledge, no other
>>> CCIE training
>>> company has the level of experience in developing graded
>>> assessment labs as
>>> Val Pavlichenko and his software team at NetMasterClass. This
>>> team now is
>>> working for Cisco to develop a full range of graded assessment
>>> labs. This of
>>> course includes all Cisco 360 graded assessment labs.
>>> Currently, there are
>>> 12 graded assessment labs available in the Routing and
>>> Switching Cisco 360
>>> program. Many people perform several of these graded
>>> assessments to
>>> establish a "trend of performance" to help indicate their
>>> level of readiness
>>> to attempt the actual CCIE lab. Many like to combine this with
>>> Cisco 360
>>> mentoring services to obtain coaching and guidance along the
>>> way. Mr. Bill
>>> Burns of RackTimeRentals is one of these Mentors! Great job
>>> Bill! : )
>>> To get a good understanding of the new a la carte
>>> purchasing
>>> options
>>> available with Cisco 360, go to the following NetMasterClass link:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://netmasterclass.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY
>>> <
>>> http://netmasterclass.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=NMC
>>> <
>>> http://netmasterclass.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=NMC
>>>>
>>> _Store&Category_Code=Cisco360>
>>> &Store_Code=NMC_Store&Category_Code=Cisco360
>>> If you have any additional questions or comments, please
>>> feel
>>> free to
>>> contact me directly.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> -Bruce Caslow CCIE #3139
>>>
>>> Cisco 360 Master Instructor
>>>
>>> NetMasterClass, LLC
>>>
>>> www.netmasterclass.net <http://www.netmasterclass.net>
>>>
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>
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>

Cheers,

Jared Scrivener CCIE3 #16983 (R&S, Security, SP), CISSP
Sr. Technical Instructor - IPexpert, Inc.
URL: http://www.IPexpert.com
Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
Fax: +1.810.454.0130
Mailto: jscrivener_at_ipexpert.com

Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Fri Jun 12 2009 - 07:36:57 ART