Re: CCIE bootcamp that will take learning credits?

Wayne,
Technically, you are correct. To be labeled a CCIE, all you need to do is
pass a lab exam. If you measure your success just by the sheer number of how
many people pass the lab exam, then I guess IPExpert are successful in that
regard.

But if I can quote the great Jeff Doyle, "I want to make CCIEs, not people
who can pass the CCIE lab."

You ask me how to measure training material, that is an extremely difficult
question to answer. Personally, I would measure how the material aims at
developing technical skills which can be applied in the real world.

I don't think either of us want to start a training vendor war here, my
intention was just to draw a comparison between INE and the 360 program.

Disclaimer: I am not way affiliated with INE apart from being a satisfied
subscriber.

On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Wayne Lawson <groupstudy_at_ipexpert.com>wrote:

> Nassar -
>
> Your response doesn't make any sense to me. "You can't measure the
> quality of your training material based on how many people passed" - its
> CCIE TRAINING MATERIAL - Remember?!?!? How else would you measure the
> legitimacy of CCIE training material???.....Please explain....
>
> You also say that "not everyone is motivated by a 6-figure income" -
> yeah, although that's true (but even then a majority of the 1,300 CCIEs we
> have helped certify have been motivated - and excited about the income
> increase they received after passing!) - CCIE Candidates ARE motivated by
> the job securty it provides. Why else do you suggest people spend thousands
> of dollars and invest their heart and soul into an amazing
> accomplishment?...It's the same as chasing after an MBA....most people don't
> toss 100k+ at a University and many years of their life just to "learn"
> something and not "reap the rewards" of their hard work....
>
> Great plug on the INE 2.0 materials - and I would agree that they
> provide valuable training resources (I also measure them as being successful
> because they have the world's 3rd largest list of CCIEs - behind NLI and
> us). In fact, NLIs material and Narbik's material are also "valuable" in
> their own unique way. Personally, I think the INE "2.0" strategy wasn't
> necessarily a "big revolution" like they claimed it was. Although their
> workbooks are solid (as are ours and our other competitors), they took
> freebies (their free online training sessions) and began charging for them
> (ours are still free), they took a negative and attempted to market it as a
> "positive" (their workbooks will "never be complete") - pleeeease...they got
> beat up for years because their products were never "complete" - our
> products have a predefined design - and when it's done - it's done - we
> don't ask our competitors to "hang in there forever because our products
> will never be complete. Minor error corrections and updates are
> understandable, but "never complete" is a marketing scheme based on word
> play - and unfortunately some people bought it (and some peope even see it
> as a "great revolution" which amazes me - that's what they were bashed for
> over the span of many years - now people think it's a positive?!?). And
> their poly-whatchya-callit labs seems (to me) like a very bad idea. How can
> you accurately prepare for the real lab if they are "pulling out topics you
> understand" - isn't that (other than time management) one of the biggest
> challenges of the lab?!?....to get EVERYTHING working together
> properly?!....pulling out topics (even if you score well on those individual
> topics) will eliminate a large portion of various "situations" that can
> arise with other various protocols and technologies overlap....
>
> Again - I'm not attempting to start a vendor war here - so note that I
> did give "kudos" to the other "grey market" vendors. The primary point in
> this thread is that Cisco's 360 is an unproven and unfinished product - and
> in July that's all CCIE candidates will be able to purchase with CLCs. Cisco
> clearly didn't want to offer proven, quality materials through their
> partners (materials such as ours, IEs or Narbik's) - they just want to earn
> a buck selling something that's not as good, isn't supported well, doesn't
> have a solid guarantee and is extremely expensive. We, Narbik and IE will
> all be around years from now - I highly doubt the 360 program will be.
> Check back with me in 3 years on this! ;-)
>
> Regards,
> Wayne A. Lawson II - CCIE #5244
> President & Founder - IPexpert, Inc.
> Email: <wlawson_at_ipexpert.com>wlawson_at_ipexpert.com
>
> :: Message sent from iPhone.
>
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 11:44 PM, Nasser Abraham <nasser.abraham_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Wayne,
> Not everyone who pursues a CCIE does so just to pass an exam. You really
> cannot measure the quality of training material purely based upon how many
> people have passed the CCIE exam. Also, not everyone is motivated by a
> "six-figure income", but if that is the way you try to sell your product,
> then kudos to you.
>
> In saying that, we have the 360 program available to us through work.
> Whilst I find the 360 program to be a valuable resource, I would consider
> INE CCIE 2.0 program to be more comprehensive in teaching the technologies.
>
> On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Wayne Lawson < <groupstudy_at_ipexpert.com>
> groupstudy_at_ipexpert.com> wrote:
>
>> I guess the questions to ask are: *how many people have passed using 360
>> material* and *how many people have passed using "grey market" material*....

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Received on Thu Jun 11 2009 - 10:47:58 ART