From: Godswill Oletu (oletu@inbox.lv)
Date: Sun Mar 29 2009 - 13:21:01 ART
Since his current company is in the know and they do not care; the only
thing I see standing in the way, which might be overcome is Cisco's policy
to companies regarding the use of CCIEs to meet certification status.
If the other company can meet the legal framework of Cisco's policies, I do
not see how this is illegal or unethical; though there might be some immoral
underpinning to it; in that you are taking likely jobs away from your CCIE
colleagues; but in a capitalist society as ours; with no protectionism, it
is the survival of the fittest.
These are the Cisco policies that are in play in your friend's situation:
1. The CCIE must be legally employed by the applying partner in the country
the partner is seeking certification.
-since, these are legal terms/contracts you have to wear your legal hat
when looking at them. There is nothing in that policy that states that your
friend must live abroad; it simply states that the individual must be
legally employed by the applying partner in their country; just like I can
live in NYC and be legally employed in SF; someone can live in the US and be
legally employed in India, it happens everyday.
2.CCIE must have exclusive, full-time contract with partner in country
seeking certification. This is to the advantage of your friend. We all
understand that a full time employment means putting in anything around 35
hours a week. So your friend's contract must spell out that he will be
engaged as a full time contract employee and guarantee full time hours of xx
per week. We all have 168 hours each week, so there is plenty of room for 35
hours to fit-in. Moreso, since India is about 9-10 hours ahead of us; your
friend can take it as a US after-hours gig and he could be engaged during
the wee hours in the US. Some of us did that while is college; i.e. worked
the afternoon shift at Friendly's and be there to cover the midnight shift
at Kmart's.
3. Must dedicate 100% of his/her time to that partner's business. This is a
little tricky, but the key here is that whole part called 'time' if we can
put a number on time or quantify it somehow; then we will be in good shape.
Though we all have 168 hours a week, we do not dedicate 100% of it to our
current employers; e.g. we have family time, movie time, kids time, social
time, partying time, sleeping time, studying time, labing time, hanging out
in groupstudy time; time wasted in writing/reading/sending some stupid CCIE
dump emails on groupstudy; dinner time, etc...Despite all these most of us
here will agreed that we are 100% dedicated to our current employer.
I will interpret this 100% time dedication to mean 100% of the full time
contracted employee time as spell out in the contract.
Cisco's policy regarding this is so vague and open ended and I do not see
them going after a CCIE because of this. The worst case scenario is that
they will deny the other company their certification during an audit.
The key here is, if your current company is open to it; I do not see any
harm in it; but it will be good for you to inform them when you have taken
the contract position with this other company that will be using your
number. This way down the road if your manager corners you at the cafeteria
and you have conversation like.the one below, you will have a little cover:
Manager: "please see me in my office after lunch; Mr such, such & such just
left the company and since there is a hiring freeze, we will need your CCIE
number to maintain our gold certification with Cisco.
You: aah!..aah!!...but.but you remember I told you about that my India
contract.
Manager: Yes, that's is not a problem, just meet me in the office & I will
transfer your CCIE number over immediately.
You: but..but.there is a 12 months wait period before you can use it.
Manager: F!ck! what do I tell the VP now? he wants us to start using your
number immediately.
You: tell him.....tell him.....mmm..hmm
Godswill Oletu
CCIE #16464 (R&S)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Radioactive Frog" <pbhatkoti@gmail.com>
To: "Groupstudy CCIE R/S" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: Cisco Engineers expected to know MS Technologies?
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 9:24 PM, Tony Edwards
> <tonyedwards.rs@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Frog , Larry , Scott and It guy ,
>>
>> Thanks a lot for your words of encouragement on my situation.
>>
>> I must admit , Frog's "what about this" suggestion sounded like "not bad
>> idea at all" considering ever growing demand & growth on converged comms
>> arena , even though Larry's "Stick with it. A well rounded IE is a real
>> asset to any company" comment makes lot of sense as well.
>>
>> tony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/29/09, Radioactive Frog <pbhatkoti@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dude,
>>> don't be scare of MS exchange server - its kiddie stuffs.
>>> Main thing is integration, its well documented - exchange to CCM.
>>>
>>> It's always good to do multiple task and not being cisco centric. You
>>> learn a lot from other stuffs.
>>> I think you should also youstop worrying about getting R&S cert. Belive
>>> me
>>> thats just a paper [bloody hard to get it though], that won't teach you
>>> multiple things.
>>>
>>> How many people on this list knows CWDM/DWDM? I bet not more than 5%.
>>> Aren't you lucky that you've got or getting opportunity to work on?
>>>
>>> I wish I had a boss who give to work with multiple area. I love playing
>>> with multiple things :) thats fun !
>>>
>>> what about this:
>>> Forget about R&S and just do the voice hands on stuffs first, then
>>> prepare
>>> for voice lab? - remember Voice pays more than R&S.
>>> Voice experience without the cert will pay you what a guy with R&S gets.
>>>
>>> I am not sure if that applies to where you are living but certainly here
>>> in Australia its the case.
>>>
>>> MOC and exchange servers are -=- next> next> next and finish thing type
>>> of
>>> wizards. don't be scared of them.
>>>
>>> my 2 cents!
>>>
>>> -frog
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM, <itguy.pro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In multi vendor environment you should be prepared for stuff like this.
>>>> After taking narbiks bootcamp last year and have a full lab at home, we
>>>> deployed ms exchange 2007 and UC at work so now I'm going to knock out
>>>> at
>>>> least the first exchange exam before hitting RS again.
>>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: darth router <darklordrouter@gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 16:38:20
>>>> To: Tony Edwards<tonyedwards.rs@gmail.com>
>>>> Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: Cisco Engineers expected to know MS Technologies?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or you can always get out of enterprise work and go the service
>>>> provider
>>>> route. Plenty of routing/switching there, and a lot less end users to
>>>> deal
>>>> with on that level. The Network Engineer of today is becoming the Net
>>>> Engineer/MS admin/help desk guy all rolled into one.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Tony Edwards <tonyedwards.rs@gmail.com
>>>> >wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Hi GS,
>>>> >
>>>> > I am just wondering whether any one going through same situation as
>>>> > of
>>>> > me...
>>>> >
>>>> > - Still dreaming & dragging my feet on still allusive RS IE ###.
>>>> Intention
>>>> > is still there but unable to focus and drive home the desired result
>>>> > , Primarily because of diversified technologies requirements from
>>>> > Boss
>>>> at
>>>> > work.
>>>> >
>>>> > - which is not at all bad thing as my employer is using me on various
>>>> > projects such as RS WAN & LAN , Data Centre technologies such as WAN
>>>> > Accelerators , WDM SAN + IP Tel or UC + Wireless + NW Management
>>>> systems
>>>> > such as CW or ACS ..etc.
>>>> >
>>>> > - Even though I am enjoying these sorts of technical challenges at
>>>> > work
>>>> ,
>>>> > the biggest problem I am going through right now is having to deal
>>>> > with
>>>> > divided Loyalty between my old love RS and my new love UC.
>>>> >
>>>> > - Hence am unable to do justice to neither of IE lab exam prep/focus,
>>>> > I
>>>> am
>>>> > afraid.
>>>> >
>>>> > - For example , I can see my Christmas coming to me already in 2009
>>>> with 3
>>>> > x
>>>> > major upcoming projects such as UC 5 to UC 7 migration , Microsoft
>>>> Exchange
>>>> > 2007 Unified Messaging Voice Mail deployment and MS OCS MOC
>>>> > deployments
>>>> > knocking my door.
>>>> >
>>>> > - So Instead of getting Fluent or consolidate my RS technologies
>>>> > skills
>>>> > towards my unfinished RS Lab exam , I am now studying & working on on
>>>> > Microsoft UC technologies.Since they fall under MS banner , I tried
>>>> > to
>>>> push
>>>> > them to our server team as me being a comms engineer do not have
>>>> advanced
>>>> > exchange server or exchange 2007 UC skills.
>>>> >
>>>> > - But the answer came back that , since I do maintain end to end Data
>>>> > &
>>>> > current cisco IP Tel platforms, they reckon that I am their best bet
>>>> > to
>>>> > manager their Microsoft UC environment as well , which I know nothing
>>>> about
>>>> > till now.
>>>> >
>>>> > - Now the Question is that , I can see the trend of increasing
>>>> expectations
>>>> > from employers on Cisco Network engineers on upcoming MS UC as well.
>>>> Are we
>>>> > seeing this as a future road map of overlaying MS & Cisco Skill sets
>>>> > ,
>>>> > particularly when UC field is going to be equally shared by these 2
>>>> vendors
>>>> > with in Enterprise space ? And in these potentially recession times ,
>>>> > I
>>>> > guess the best you can do is to keep your mouth shut and do your best
>>>> > whatever the project your employer dumps on your plate.
>>>> >
>>>> > -In a way , I am existed to get my hands dirty on this new UC kid in
>>>> the
>>>> > block.
>>>> >
>>>> > - But the biggest draw back is that , I am moving further away from
>>>> > my
>>>> > unfinished job of RS lab :-(
>>>> >
>>>> > - And recently , I am also began contemplating of dumping my old love
>>>> of RS
>>>> > lab and instead run after Voice IE lab.
>>>> >
>>>> > - But the fact that Voice lab is lot more tougher to crack when
>>>> compared to
>>>> > RS lab and also because I came very close on RS lab some 2 years ago
>>>> > ,
>>>> > perhaps , I am unable to let go my RS ## ambitions just yet.
>>>> >
>>>> > - At the same time , it will be tough to keep working on advanced &
>>>> > interesting Voice projects @ work and come home and dust off my RS
>>>> books
>>>> > and
>>>> > racks and pursue that old love :-(
>>>> >
>>>> > any advise guys ?
>>>> >
>>>> > tony
>>>> >
>>>> >
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>>>> >
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