From: Scott Morris (smorris@internetworkexpert.com)
Date: Mon Feb 16 2009 - 03:03:40 ARST
There's always things to be learned by trying, not just from candidates
standpoint but from the proctors standpoint as well. While it sucks to feel
"victimized" by this trying procedure it's part of evolution.
No matter what the test, no matter what the specifics, there will ALWAYS (it
happened back in my lab days too!) be something to complain about the
fairness of. Those who pass it say it's not that big of a deal. Those who
do not liken it to some tool of Satan. There's always an in-between.
From Cisco's viewpoint, there's implementing something to reduce the number
of people passing based on memorized tests. Is it the right thing to do?
In theory yes. Great concept. Will there be collateral damage? Obviously,
yes, some people think so! (as we've noted thus far)
Personally, if I were the one making the choice (and I've stated this idea
many times over the years), I would make the test two parts. Start out
everyone with a two-hour troubleshooting exam. If you can fix the network
and make (some task or set of tasks) occur, then you get to move on. If you
finish early, you get a break. Simple grading. Either yes or no on the
tasks to accomplish!
2.5 hours in (we'll give the proctors some time to assess results of the
10-15 candidates they're responsible for) the remaining folks will start the
"regular test" sans open-ended questions. Whether this is still an 8-hour
test or is pared down to 6-hours is irrelevant in my opinion.
In the first two hours you weed out the braindumpers or people who spend too
much time memorizing configuration trivia. AND at the same time, you
prevent the vast majority of people who would sit and MEMORIZE the lab to BE
a braindumper from even seeing the real thing. As it stands now, someone
who has no aptitude will still get to see the entire exam.
Personally, I applaud the idea that the folks at Cisco are looking to
address some serious issues. I think that's a great step. I would just
take a different tact. Am I an evil bastard? Probably depends on which
side of the fence you sit on. Would I be happy with something like that
appearing on a future test that I personally may end up taking?
Absolutely! I'd love it! And if I failed I'd have nobody to blame but
myself.
Just my 2.6 cents for anyone who's counting.
Scott Morris, CCIE4 #4713, JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
Senior CCIE Instructor
smorris@internetworkexpert.com
Internetwork Expert, Inc.
http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
Toll Free: 877-224-8987
Outside US: 775-826-4344
Knowledge is power.
Power corrupts.
Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
mahmoud genidy
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 11:35 PM
To: Narbik Kocharians
Cc: Anthony Sequeira; Thameem Maranveetil Parambath; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: Why is Open Ended Question in the Begining of the lab?
Narbik,
We are looking for a conceptual challenge from Cisco rather than a
know/don't know questions. I don't like to remember or to keep much
information in my mind. We have enough stuff to care about in life more just
being network engineers. It would make sense to allow us to access the DOC
CD during the Open-Ended questions Cisco. Then I wouldn't mind to challenge
us as much as they can. But this is not the case!
So to sum up I agree that Cisco have the right to chalenge people they way
they like but in an engineering and conceptual sense. Which is not the case
based on the feebdback of guys who have tried the exam.
Mahmoud.
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Narbik Kocharians <narbikk@gmail.com>wrote:
> But wouldn't you guys like to go through the lab and see whats up?
> If anyone has doubts about their knowledge of answering these questions,
> they are simply NOT ready. I have had few of my students that passed and
> all
> they said was "If you are ready, you are ready, if you are NOT then you
> should NOT take the exam", and i have to agree.
> Whether the test is before or after or in the middle of the lab, what is
> the
> difference? What does it matter?
> I hope they implement more stuff to kick the fake ones out, i am very glad
> about these questions. If it was up to me, i would ask a written question
> after each Task saying explain yourself, why did you perform that task. Do
> you know of other ways to configure the same task? name couple of other
> ways
> that would accomplish the same task.
> This is what i would do.
>
> On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 7:36 PM, Anthony Sequeira <
> asequeira@internetworkexpert.com> wrote:
>
> > I think Cisco just stayed with the order as was part of the "beta" for
> this
> > addition in China. There, they asked the candidate ORAL questions prior
> to
> > their attempt in order to establish the candidate actually knew Cisco
> > networking. :-|
> >
> > I believe without thinking about it too much - they just kept these
> written
> > question in front.
> >
> > I have to agree with Jason in that I would prefer them first thing when
I
> > am "fresh". Although I certainly see your point about nerves. Just be
> very,
> > very confident as you enter and you will be just fine!
> >
> > Anthony J. Sequeira, CCIE #15626, CCSI #23251
> > Senior CCIE Instructor
> >
> > asequeira@internetworkexpert.com
> >
> > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com <http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> > Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> > Outside US: 775-826-4344
> >
> >
> > On Feb 15, 2009, at 10:13 PM, Thameem Maranveetil Parambath wrote:
> >
> > Guys,
> >>
> >> I was wondering why cisco preffered to put the open ended question
> before
> >> the actual lab take?
> >>
> >> It is of common sense that we need not need to attempt the lab even if
> one
> >> question out of 4 is wrong in that section.
> >>
> >> It would have been better if we could attend this questions after we
> >> finish the lab as we could feel more confident .
> >>
> >> Whats your views on this?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Thameem
> >>
> >>
> >>
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>
> --
> Narbik Kocharians
> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> www.MicronicsTraining.com
> www.Net-Workbooks.com
> Sr. Technical Instructor
>
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