From: Travis Niedens (niedentj@hotmail.com)
Date: Wed Feb 04 2009 - 05:36:44 ARST
See, the thing I really want to know is how deep do you have to answer to
satisfy them? With the lab, you have specific outputs and behaviors that
they look for. When you introduce open ended questions, especially with a
subject as complex as IE level networking, it is difficult to gauge how far
to go.
Say I have a question such as:
Describe RFC1918 and the uses for it
That kind of question opens a whole can of worms. Do they want the IP
ranges? Do they want the traditional explanation of "we ran out of IP space
and this is a band-aid solution" or do they want the more controversial and
borderline religious discuss of how it helps with security (not routed on
the net so it is good for protecting hosts behind NAT -- oops, that's a
whole new topic). Literally, you could get a question that you sit there for
a long time (not 2 minutes / questions) to explain it in a thorough manner
as you have not been given much guidance other than "answer it right or
fail".
In addition, what if the "evaluator" of these responses is not feeling good
that day -- say upset over the Cisco stock price? What if the answer is too
technical to the point where it seems like you are trying to BS? If it is a
"network religious" question, what if they disagree, do you still get credit
since others in the industry DO agree with your response?
I understand the need to make these tests "testking" proof however it needs
to be done the right way. Given the ambiguous responses from Cisco on this
and the "re-evaluation" process for this part if you disagree, it honestly
should not be allowed to make or break a candidate. I think it would be
quite crazy to fail a person who gets a 60% on the "open answer" questions
yet scores an overall score of 90 points on the lab.
At the end of the day, if I am an IE I know the major subjects, know where
to look if I don't know tiny details (this is why you get the UniverCD at
all) and can build / troubleshoot a network. There are many other
subjects/technologies that are not in the CCIE track that are part of many
networks these days (VSS, MPLS, 45xx/65xx switches and their hardware /
software features, etc.) and magically employers and other engineers expect
CCIE level people to know them. Again, this is learned through experience
and education.
Travis
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Faraz Ahmed
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:59 PM
To: 'Pavel Bykov'
Cc: 'Jason Morris'; 'Darby Weaver'; 'Andy Hogard'; 'joshua atterbury';
'Cisco certification'
Subject: RE: Sample Questions
That means it will be graded automatically as graded for LAB working.
Thanks and Regards,
Faraz Ahmed
From: Pavel Bykov [mailto:slidersv@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 11:41 AM
To: Faraz Ahmed
Cc: Jason Morris; Darby Weaver; Andy Hogard; joshua atterbury; Cisco
certification
Subject: Re: Sample Questions
Proctor DOES NOT grade your lab
Proctor DOES NOT grade your questions
Questions ARE NOT oral, you will enter them on the computer.
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:39 AM, Faraz Ahmed <faraz@1link.net.pk> wrote:
But what happens if the proctor will not satisfy with our answer, will it
mask as wrong or right. If I answer him in some different way while he was
expecting some other answer from candidate.
Thanks and Regards,
Faraz Ahmed
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Pavel Bykov
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 11:24 AM
To: Jason Morris
Cc: Darby Weaver; Andy Hogard; Faraz Ahmed; joshua atterbury; Cisco
certification
Subject: Re: Sample Questions
I had it confirmed by Brussels proctor - they are graded separately.
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 8:09 PM, Jason Morris <mcnever@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think it does matter how they're scored.
>
>
>
http://ciscocert.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ciscocert.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?
p
>
>
_faqid=4612&p_created=1231808513&p_sid=opJ6lzpj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect
=
>
>
&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD01MTIsNTE
y
>
>
JnBfcHJvZHM9JnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJj
a
<http://ciscocert.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ciscocert.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php
?
p%0A_faqid=4612&p_created=1231808513&p_sid=opJ6lzpj&p_accessibility=0&p_redi
r
ect=%0A&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD01
M
TIsNTEy%0AJnBfcHJvZHM9JnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZX
J
zLnNlYXJja>
> F9mbmwmcF9wYWdlPTE*&p_li=&p_topview=1
>
> leads me to believe that the Q&A section is graded as part of the lab
(part
> of the 100 points)
>
>
>
http://ciscocert.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ciscocert.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?
p
>
>
_faqid=4607&p_created=1231807707&p_sid=opJ6lzpj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect
=
>
>
&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD01MTIsNTE
y
>
>
JnBfcHJvZHM9JnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJj
a
<http://ciscocert.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ciscocert.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php
?
p%0A_faqid=4607&p_created=1231807707&p_sid=opJ6lzpj&p_accessibility=0&p_redi
r
ect=%0A&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD01
M
TIsNTEy%0AJnBfcHJvZHM9JnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZX
J
zLnNlYXJja>
> F9mbmwmcF9wYWdlPTE*&p_li=&p_topview=1
>
> this makes me thing its graded separately
>
> I'm not worried about the content or the formatting of the questions. I
> wanna know if i'm going to walk in to 5 short answer questions worth 4
> points each, i'd find that hard to believe. but if its graded with the
> exam
> and you have to pass it to pass the entire exam.... I dont know i guess
> I'll
> find out either way, but... its unnerving
>
>
> Jason
>
> On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Darby Weaver <ccie.weaver@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I don't think we are going to hear from Cisco on how these questions are
> > formally graded.
> >
> > A lot of speculation. Not much substance.
> >
> > If a CCIE Candidate cannot answer the questions correctly then that CCIE
> > Candidate will likely not pass the lab.
> >
> > It will be interesting to see how the score reports look in any event.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Jason Morris <mcnever@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> has Cisco released any information about how the questions are scored
> yet?
> >> If they are graded as part of the exam, like you get X number of points
> >> for
> >> the questions/answer section, or it doesn't count towards your lab
grade
> >> at
> >> all and you just have to pass the question/answer and the lab to get
> your
> >> number.
> >>
> >> I remember looking at the certsupport Q&A and seeing answsers that
> infered
> >> it was both ways.
> >>
> >> I mean the only way they could make it part of your 100 points and make
> >> you
> >> have to pass it is if its worth more than 20 points right? ie if you
> have
> >> 5
> >> questions at 1 point each you hardly have to pass the Q&A to pass the
> >> exam.
> >>
> >>
> >> just something i've been wondering about. (scheduled to set for the lab
> >> 3/2/09)
> >>
> >> Jason
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 6:14 AM, Andy Hogard <andyhogard@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Lol,
> >> >
> >> > Kewl ..that ISDN question definitely took my breath away!! :) Thanks,
> >> Jared
> >> > for your clarification!
> >> >
> >> > Greets!
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Faraz Ahmed <faraz@1link.net.pk>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Hi Josh,
> >> > >
> >> > > Did u have any idea about these open-ended question.
> >> > >
> >> > > Regards,
> >> > > Faraz
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
> Behalf
> >> Of
> >> > > joshua atterbury
> >> > > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 7:12 AM
> >> > > To: Jason Madsen
> >> > > Cc: Cisco certification
> >> > > Subject: Re: Sample Questions
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi Jason,
> >> > >
> >> > > those sample questions are for the Written exam.. The new questions
> in
> >> > the
> >> > > lab the will not be multiple choice, They will be presented in an
> >> > > open-ended
> >> > > format with a text box to type your answer in.
> >> > >
> >> > > Cheers.
> >> > > josh
> >> > >
> >> > > On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 12:47 PM, Jason Madsen <
> madsen.jason@gmail.com
> >> > > >wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > ...you guys seen these? wonder if it's possible for someone to
> >> > actually
> >> > > > pass the lab exam and fail because of the sample questions?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > ...that would suck.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > this sample of questions doesn't look too bad, but it seems that
> the
> >> > > > questions could be about anything. i've read / studied / labbed
> >> about
> >> > > > every stinking technology in the doc cd at one point or another
> >> except
> >> > > two
> >> > > > of the ones listed below (SBM and Dialer Watch). that's kind of
> >> > scary.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le3/ccie/rs/sample_questions.html
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Routing and Switching Sample Questions
> >> > > >
> >> > > > 1. Which attribute is unique to Cisco's implementation
> >> > > > of BGP?
> >> > > > A. MED
> >> > > > B. Weight
> >> > > > C. AS-Path
> >> > > > D. Local-preference
> >> > > > E. None of the above
> >> > > >
> >> > > > 2. The Subnetwork Bandwidth Manager (SBM) protocol is:
> >> > > > A. An enhancement to RSVP for LANs
> >> > > > B. A Weighted Random Early Detection sub protocol
> >> > > > C. A Graphical User Interface for WAN management
> >> > > > D. A VLAN rate limiter
> >> > > >
> >> > > > 3. When configuring IOS which is not a valid ISDN backup
> >> > > > technique?
> >> > > > A. Dialer watch
> >> > > > B. Policy routing
> >> > > > C. OSPF demand circuit
> >> > > > D. Floating static routes
> >> > > > E. None of the above
> >> > > >
> >> > > > 4. What's the maximum frame size of Gigabit Ethernet?
> >> > > > A. 15,000 bytes
> >> > > > B. 1500 bytes
> >> > > > C. 4216 bytes
> >> > > > D. 9000 bytes
> >> > > > 5. Which is a valid command to view the IP Multicast Routing
> >> > > > Table?
> >> > > > A. SHOW IP ROUTE
> >> > > > B. SHOW IP PIM ROUTE
> >> > > > C. SHOW IP MROUTE
> >> > > > D. SHOW IP PIM MROUTE
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
> >> > > > Subscription information may be found at:
> >> > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
> >> > > Subscription information may be found at:
> >> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
> >> > > Subscription information may be found at:
> >> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > My Blog URL: http://ccieno.blogspot.com/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >> >
> >> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> >> > Subscription information may be found at:
> >> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>
> >>
> >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
> >> Subscription information may be found at:
> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-- Pavel Bykov ---------------- Don't forget to help stopping the braindumps, use of which reduces value of your certifications. Sign the petition at http://www.stopbraindumps.com/Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sun Mar 01 2009 - 09:44:10 ARST