From: Pavel Bykov (slidersv@gmail.com)
Date: Fri Nov 14 2008 - 10:22:52 ARST
Joseph,
By no means I meant "just words" when I talked about rhetoric's. What I
meant is that there is a whole social science built around it, not just a
couple of points.
Majority of what we do is communicate, verbally, non-verbally, directly,
indirectly, or otherwise. So it's not a surprise that there is a field
dedicated to it, and besides one should be offended by "just words", look at
any election at any country - people elect their leaders based on words. And
I bet your favorite Carlos Slim didn't become who he is by doing something
else than communicate, be it an email, a contract or management.
I was trying to point out, that you should not hide your qualities, but work
with them. If the most fun you have is when making fun of people by being a
smart ass - why should you give up your happiness and become submissive just
because of hard times? You should try to figure out a better way to become
even more wanted and be even bigger smart ass, imho :) What's the point of
doing something if it doesn't bring fun in the end? I am by no means trying
to say that it's what I want or what anyone - I am talking about a mind set.
If it is important for you to have a company and make money - than that is
your goal, and you should do anything possible to achieve it. If it is
important for someone to sleep at least 12 hours a day, therefore coming to
job at 11:30 am, then they shouldn't just give it up and wake up every
morning at 6am just to look better, because that would definitely have bad
impact on that person. Again - it's mostly abstract terms, I am not talking
about anything specific.
P.S.: You brought a couple of points, but right away you broke #3. your last
email was mostly straight-on bragging with cream and icing :)
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 1:16 AM, Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com>wrote:
> Actually Pavel, I was giving the group some of my insight into how I've
> managed to be in INCREDIBLY STRONG demand for 8 years in the Cisco field
> (more than ever recently, I sleep 4 hours a night) consistently get
> promoted
> and build very strong relationships while at full-time jobs. I then used
> those relationships to launch my own company in 2006 and make my own way.
> That's not rhetoric, that results... 3 of my current clients on monthly
> retainer are ex-bosses from my full time jobs. 1 to the tune of an ongoing
> six-figure consulting engagement. I didn't "manipulate my environment", I
> managed it. I treated them with respect and showed them so much value they
> remembered me when they went on to bigger and better things :)
>
> I could have been a pain to work with, but I quickly realized even a city
> of
> 8 Million, with 20+ Million in the metro area, it's still a small place. I
> constantly run into old co-workers, associates and I couldn't imagine being
> anything less than a gentleman in business or at a job.
>
> Of course I agree you are right about this line
>
> "I knew people that held high consultant positions just because of
> manipulations you are talking about."
>
> I can name a few ;)
>
> Those people always get what's coming to them. Believe me. Remember the
> warden in "The Shawshank Redemption". Right before he shoots himself the
> sign on the wall-
>
> "His judgment commeth, and that right soon"
>
> I wouldn't say these people have to shoot themselves, but they always get
> what's coming to them ;)
>
> LOL
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Pavel Bykov
> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 6:29 PM
> To: Joseph Brunner
> Cc: Jonny English; Larry; Darby Weaver; Cisco certification
> Subject: Re: Job Cuts
>
> Joseph, all you pointers are a basic subset of rhetoric manipulation. And
> they accomplish exactly what their purpose is: manipulate environment to
> your advantage, be it due to personal qualities, image actualization or
> visibility. Like increasing your attractiveness to employer and creating
> impressions.
>
> But for what it's worth, it all comes down to what a person wants. If job
> for me is more important then who I am, then I would alter my personality,
> habits, and basically suck it up. Maybe step by step we will get to the
> points of Eastern companies where employees sign company's hymn every
> morning and their loyalty to the company is endless (there are really many
> companies like that)
>
> I, for one, much rather get fired then to turn away from personal
> development. For me, the company is a place where you should be enabled to
> grow your potential, constantly learn, realize your skills and be involved
> in evolving networking fabric that connect so many people. Maybe get some
> money on the side. Company is a way, not the goal. Also this way the
> employer hires real me, not flashy presentation which we are too accustomed
> to. I knew people that held high consultant positions just because of
> manipulations you are talking about.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 10:44 PM, Joseph Brunner
> <joe@affirmedsystems.com>wrote:
>
> > As the owner of my own company the best advice I can give to the self and
> > the fulltime staff here for staying working in these tough times is-
> >
> >
> > 1. Don't be afraid to do other things. At first I resisted doing MS
> > Exchange, Active Directory, scripting, etc. The most valuable "jack"
> often
> > has to be a master of more than one trade.
> >
> > 2. Make yourself visible. I don't mean bring the boss or the director an
> > apple :) but jump on issues, be aggressive. If is a 10 second discussion
> in
> > the hallway, or the unexpected proposal you drop on someone's desk and
> they
> > just read it on the way home on the train; its one more thing that let's
> > people know you are a good investment.
> >
> >
> > 3. Don't brag. 2 people can brag; Carlos Slim Helu and Nathan Rothschild
> > III. The rest of us have to work in the trenches and see how it turns
> out.
> > Don't tell someone you know something don't. Show them. You'll win more
> > friends with small mouth (especially in these times).
> >
> >
> > 4. Don't Lie. Most people can see right through your lies, even if their
> > just little white lies. You must tell the truth. You will be judged by
> your
> > boss, and your co-workers and they must trust you.
> >
> >
> > 5. Be dependable. If you say 8am that means 7:50am. That does not mean
> > 8:15am or 9:00am. If you are the guy in the bunch that is the most
> on-time,
> > the most reliable it will be an easy choice when the boss gets told he
> has
> > to make some staff cuts. Believe me on this one.
> >
> >
> > 6. And last, Be social. Most top executives and bosses will take the
> > average
> > guy who tells users and fellow staff members what he is doing, why he is
> > doing it and how it will work over the "genius in the corner". The genius
> > in
> > the corner is of course the guy you want on "show ip route eigrp",
> > "show ip eigrp top all" & "show run | inc interface|access-group|ip
> route".
> > I know it's hard for some of us. When our hot little brains get going,
> why
> > would we want to even look at someone with an IQ 25% lowers than ours and
> > let them know why we just did something... but believe me. I call them
> the
> > "jocks with the checks" who pay our bills. And they want the guy on their
> > team who is nice to work with. Period.
> >
> >
> > -Joe
> > Whole Unabridged Male #19366
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > Jonny English
> > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 4:05 PM
> > To: Larry
> > Cc: Darby Weaver; Cisco certification
> > Subject: Re: Job Cuts
> >
> > you really think ccie is going to keep jobs safe? The company I work for
> > are
> > getting rid of consultants, probably me too from what was said and
> keeping
> > graduates which i found odd. I was really confused when they told us.
> >
> > I guess the best thing to do is work for a gold partner or something :)
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 3:15 AM, Larry <cc13lab@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > lots of 1st/2nd level engineers being outsourced at large service
> > providers
> > > (att, verizon etc) leading to layoffs. going to be a growing trend as
> we
> > can
> > > pay an engineer with a ccnp and 2+ years of experience the equivalant
> of
> > 12K
> > > per year overseas.... customers don't really seem to care as long as
> the
> > > price of the service is right... only way to beat this, get your ccie!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 9:08 AM, Darby Weaver
> > <ccie.weaver@gmail.com>wrote:
> > >
> > >> Which country or state?
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Jonny English <
> > redkidneybeans@gmail.com
> > >> >wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Hi,
> > >> >
> > >> > Anyone experiencing layoffs at the moment?
> > >> >
> > >> > Are things getting bad for anyone. The company I work for are laying
> > off
> > >> > people due to the recession. I'm trying to see how bad things are
> out
> > >> there
> > >> > so I can see how tough it would be to get a job.
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > Thank You,
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > >> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > >> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >>
> > >>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > >> Subscription information may be found at:
> > >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thank You,
> >
> >
> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
> >
> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Pavel Bykov
> -------------------------------------------------
> Stop the braindumps!
> http://www.stopbraindumps.com/
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-- Pavel Bykov ------------------------------------------------- Stop the braindumps! http://www.stopbraindumps.com/Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
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