Re: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !

From: Narbik Kocharians (narbikk@gmail.com)
Date: Tue Oct 07 2008 - 02:20:12 ART

Hey that is not fair, you guys are asking very hard questions. lol

On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 10:14 PM, Farrukh Haroon <farrukhharoon@gmail.com>wrote:

> This is common now mate :). It has happened with me at least 7-8 times both
> while being the interviewee (stupid questions from an existing CCIE) and
> the
> interviewer.
>
> Regards
>
> Farrukh
>
> On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:05 AM, Radioactive Frog <pbhatkoti@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > While you're on the topic, I would like to share you a real story of what
> > happend last week.
> >
> > My bI've interviewed 2 CCIE's R&S guys and they can't even get the 3
> wayTCP
> > handshake TCP-seqence number right.
> > I through 5questions to see how they know their stuffs. They were pretty
> > basic CCNA level questions.
> > Those questions were not about the BGP or OSPF or any dynamics protocol
> but
> > just real basic stuffs.
> >
> > another question was easy as a toddler could have done it but both CCIE
> > guys
> > (R&S ) couldn't do them right: the question was
> >
> > R1------r2-------r3----------r4
> >
> > as packet goes from r1 to r4 list the src/dst mac/ip address.
> >
> > Damn!! I have seen those paper CCIE now! so I told my boss that u want
> them
> > to go to the customer site and then ringing to Cisco TAC from the site or
> > opening a case?
> >
> > It's shame, how people can get such a pretistiagous cert without knowing
> > the
> > stuffs.
> >
> >
> > On the other hand I interviewed another CCNA guy and he holds masters
> > degree. He was 200 times bettern than those CCIE guys. He answerdd all
> > questions which were really below CCNA level.
> >
> > So I said to my boss, hey, hire that CCNA guy. He would be the one who
> will
> > do the job in the field and won't upset your customers.
> >
> > Just sharing real life experience with you guys!! may be someone else
> have
> > done this before.
> >
> > -frog
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 3:46 AM, Wes Stevens <wrsteve33-gsccie@yahoo.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > No myth they are doing interviews before the bejing lab. As to who
> would
> > > fail the interview that could pass the lab - is someone that memorized
> > > curent lab contents but did not have the experience to pass the
> interview
> > > process.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
> > > To: Wes Stevens <wrsteve33-gsccie@yahoo.com>; Darby Weaver <
> > > ccie.weaver@gmail.com>
> > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 11:08:56 AM
> > > Subject: RE: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
> > >
> > > There is no interview... that was a myth right????
> > >
> > > Who would legitimately pass the lab, and fail some interview (perhaps
> > > because they don't speak well or are nervous, then be denied a number)
> > >
> > > Lets leaving the trolling to the CCNP board!
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > > Wes
> > > Stevens
> > > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 9:49 AM
> > > To: Darby Weaver
> > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: Re: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
> > >
> > > I was told the pass rate in bejing was extreamely high till the
> interview
> > > exam was implemented. Then it dropped back to the 20% range.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: Darby Weaver <ccie.weaver@gmail.com>
> > > To: Hobbs <deadheadblues@gmail.com>
> > > Cc: john matijevic <john.matijevic@gmail.com>; Tony Varriale
> > > <tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com>; Gary Duncanson <
> > garyduncanson@btinternet.com
> > > >;
> > > Cisco certification <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, October 5, 2008 9:07:43 PM
> > > Subject: Re: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
> > >
> > > Not to belabor the point. Jared, Narbik and others were quiet eloquent
> > and
> > > to the point.
> > >
> > > Yes you can probably eventually pass the CCIE Lab on your own with
> little
> > > or
> > > no use of any workbooks.
> > >
> > > It was done in the past by a few people still here to tell the tale
> > today.
> > >
> > > Would you want to? Ouch! Maybe not.
> > >
> > > I've found the CCIE Lab Exam to be littered with lots of things that
> one
> > > can
> > > find on one's own but even reading the design guides a few times and
> > poring
> > > through the command references all the while typing at the CLI would
> just
> > > take an enormous amount of attention to detail - very much quality
> > > attention
> > > to details.
> > >
> > > Now one could pass just learning the specifics on putting making a pod
> > > work. I think this is possible. But I do not think it is the most
> > > practical way to go about it.
> > >
> > > There are a lot of very intelligent people on-list and off-list who
> take
> > > more than one trip to the CCIE Lunch Buffet. There's a reason. Maybe
> we
> > > are all deluded... or maybe we just did not pay enough attention the
> > first
> > > time.
> > >
> > > Today lots of bloggers are passing of their reported first attempt.
> I'd
> > > like to see if Cisco acknowledges this % of improvement. I've heard
> some
> > > people claim their first attempt and yet they say elsewhere they went
> > some
> > > years before, etc. Not quite the first attempt. :)
> > >
> > > It may be possible, but it may not be feasible.
> > >
> > > There's a certain school of thought that firmly is entrenched in the
> idea
> > > that this lab is very much an insider's exam.
> > >
> > > Knowing what I know, who I know and knew, and a few long years now with
> > > hindsight being 20/20, I'd say that while it may not be intended to
> have
> > > been an insider's exam, it may well have come to that.
> > >
> > > I do think that if one were quite experienced with a wide variety of
> > > technologies, that the lab difficulty diminishes with the inverse of
> > one's
> > > experiences with any given technology tested.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 7:19 PM, Hobbs <deadheadblues@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ovais: Everybody's path IS different :)
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 5:01 PM, john matijevic <
> > john.matijevic@gmail.com
> > > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello Andrew,
> > > > > The author of the BGP and OSPF Command Reference books is name is
> > > > > Parkhurst,
> > > > > I had the pleasure of meeting him personally when I went for my
> lab.
> > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > > John
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 6:19 PM, Tony Varriale <
> > > > tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com
> > > > > >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Comments inline.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
> > Behalf
> > > > Of
> > > > > > Gary
> > > > > > Duncanson
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 3:24 PM
> > > > > > To: Ovais Iqbal
> > > > > > Cc: Cisco certification
> > > > > > Subject: Re: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Vendor products are certainly popular, however it is something
> of
> > an
> > > > > urban
> > > > > > >myth that they are a relatively new phenomenon. Bootcamps and
> > > bootcamp
> > > > > > >labbooks have been around in one form or another for almost as
> > long
> > > as
> > > > > the
> > > > > > >CCIE track has been public. In other words they have been used
> to
> > a
> > > > > > greater
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >or lesser extent by just about every CCIE minted for years now.
> > > > Practice
> > > > > > >labs do not have to come from vendors though.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is obviously true for >= than the mid old-schoolers. Before
> > > > > > ccwhocamp,
> > > > > > the primary learning experience was formal training and/or OTJ.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The mid old-schoolers had 4 primary outlets: 1) ccwhocamp 2) own
> > > > > > experience/dev 3) groupstudy lab test answer posting 4) formal
> > > training
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I can assure you that #3 was a HUGE explosion in the CCIE process
> > > > during
> > > > > > this time frame.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Cisco Press have done practice
> > > > > > >labs through books by Gorito and Duggan and Solie has practice
> > labs
> > > as
> > > > > > well.
> > > > > > >There was also 'fatkid' once upon a time but I digress :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cisco Press was a factor after mid old-school, IMHO.
> > > > > > w
> > > > > > Fatkid? Where is fatty (I forgot his name...darnit)? I'm very
> > aware
> > > > of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > labs that were "offered". I'm also aware of what was available
> on
> > > the
> > > > > lab
> > > > > > exam in 2000 (or before). And, I'm not the only one.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >In terms of challenge, regardless of the mix of materials you
> use,
> > > you
> > > > > > still
> > > > > > >have to put the necessary time in to cover the lab footprint and
> > get
> > > > to
> > > > > a
> > > > > > >point where you can recall the *right* solution to meet
> particular
> > > > > > >requirements.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'll disagree here. Any idea of why certain regions of the world
> > are
> > > > > > moving
> > > > > > towards an interview before you sit?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Vendor materials are helpful but
> > > > > > >not a magic bullet. You have to make the effort. Many people
> have
> > > > > invested
> > > > > > >lots of money in multiple vendor sources and come unglued. A
> > vendor
> > > > > > product
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >wont give you determination or the inherent intellect to be able
> > to
> > > > > > >understand it all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Obviously you have to have the capability. But, the amount of
> > > > > organization
> > > > > > and material offered today from CCIE vendors is absolutely
> amazing.
> > > If
> > > > > you
> > > > > > consider price too, it's mind blowing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Cisco Press books and CCO offer an almost endless source of
> > > > > > >topologies you can lab up and play with at home and I recommend
> > you
> > > do
> > > > > so.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sure, Cisco Press is definitely the pinnacle of Cisconess. But,
> > > > consider
> > > > > > this. There are
> > > > > > some CP books that just don't measure up...some are way outside
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > acceptable variation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tv
> > > > > >
> > > > > > PS - Brad, no hard feelings on the whocamp stuff. I didn't
> invent
> > > > that,
> > > > > I
> > > > > > just thought it was funny. :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Ovais Iqbal" <ovais.iqball@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 6:43 PM
> > > > > > Subject: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi all, first of all i mean no disrespect to the gurus who are
> > > > helping
> > > > > > > CCIEs a
> > > > > > > lot, namely IE, IPexpert, Narbik and others,
> > > > > > > mostly when i read the success stories, one point is present in
> > all
> > > > of
> > > > > > > them, x
> > > > > > > months configuring the routers using x vendors workbooks, i
> just
> > > want
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > know
> > > > > > > something very simple, can some one pass the lab without these
> > > > > workbooks
> > > > > > ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > someone suggest me a path that i shall take if i dont want to
> use
> > > any
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > vendors ? right now i think getting CCIE is not a challenge any
> > > more,
> > > > > no
> > > > > > > offense, but thats the truth, look around and you will see a
> hell
> > > lot
> > > > > > > increase
> > > > > > > in the production of CCIE as never seen before, i know more and
> > > more
> > > > > ppl
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > inclined towards it but i think the real challenge is to take
> the
> > > lab
> > > > > > > without
> > > > > > > using any of the workbooks, ( again no offense to the latest
> > CCIEs,
> > > i
> > > > > > > respect
> > > > > > > them all :-) ),
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is there anyone who took the lab without using any vendors, can
> > > > he/she
> > > > > > > shed
> > > > > > > some light on his/her preparation ??
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
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> > >
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>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 

-- 
Narbik Kocharians
CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
www.MicronicsTraining
www.Net-Workbooks.com
Sr. Technical Instructor

Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net

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